Why wives say no to sex, and what a man can do about it.

June 23, 2012

in Better Sex in 2012, Sexuality

graphic generated by surveymonkey.comLast week we ran a facebook poll asking why women (and men) say no to sex. So far we’ve had 171 women answer (some only after my bride assured them it was anonymous!).

As with any web based survey I can’t claim the results are representative of the population as a whole, but I can tell you they fall in line with what we and others hear over and over from women. This won’t apply to all women, but if your bride has not suffered significant sexual abuse, is not inherently against sex, and is not just plain selfish, there’s a good chance this speaks for her fairly well. I’ve put the full responses, plus comments, at the end, after my thoughts.

  • Too tired: Two thirds of the women said they say no because they are too tired, and half said they say no because it’s late or they have to get up early. I know tired sounds like an excuse to men, but realise please sex takes more energy for women, especially if they want to climax. We can have a quickie, climax, roll over and be asleep all in ten minutes, but this just leaves a woman horny, frustrated, and unable to get to sleep. If she’s tired to start with, climax is going to be difficult at best, and maybe just not worth the effort. (Note 16% said they say no because “It would take way to much time and effort to climax.”) So, if you want more sex, your number one job is to find a way for your bride to get more rest and better sleep. Nothing else will have as much of an effect, and for most women nothing else can have an effect until the exhaustion issue is resolved.
  • Not connected: The next biggie, at 44%, was not having connected emotionally. Women need to be connected on a heart level to want and enjoy connecting physically. They can have sex without emotional connection, but they won’t want it, and probably won’t enjoy it. (BTW, an orgasm does not mean she enjoyed it – really). So, if you want more sex, your number two job is building your relationship. This does not mean being lovey-dovey an hour before you ask for sex! Work on the relationship 24/7, and she will be more open to sex in general.
  • Stress!: Thirty percent of women say no due to stress. Some women manage to get to the place where sex is a stress reliever, but this is not the norm. For most women stress kills both their sex drive and their ability to respond sexually. So, if you want more sex, your number three job is to be aware of your bride’s stress level and find ways to help her. This is neither an easy nor quick task, but you can do things to help her with stress.
  • He’s rude!: More than a quarter of women have said no because of recent rudeness on the part of their husband. So, if you want more sex, your number four job is to stop being rude. Again, this does not mean just the hours leading up to bed time, it means trying to never be rude, and admitting it and apologising when you are rude.
  • OUCH! One woman in five said they have said no because of physical pain. (This was the most surprising result to me, I’d have expected about half that rate.) There is no breakdown of the pain, although several women indicated period related pain in the comments. Husband being too rough was 3.5%, so most of this pain is something else. Learn to know when she is in pain, and find ways to help her reduce pain. You might also be able to have sex if you are willing to do something other than intercourse. Orgasm is a great pain-killer, and if she learns you can give her an orgasm without hurting her she may have a new motivation to say yes!
  • Wrong message: A little more than one woman in six says no because things are not okay in the relationship, and she knows her husband takes sex as proof everything is okay. This does NOT mean she is saying no because of the problems, but because she does not want to wrongly communicate the problems are resolved or are no big deal. If you will learn sex is not an indication everything is fine, and if you can communicate that understanding to her, she may well be more open to sex. She may be willing to set the problems aside and enjoy sex with you, if she knows you will still be willing to deal with the problems later.
  • I hate how I look!: Also at about one women in six is women so distressed by how they look they say no to sex. And, for each woman who says no, there are a couple more who say yes but struggle to enjoy because they feel self-conscious. This is a huge issue, and one you need to work on steadily if you want to help her feel better about her body.
  • It’s all he wants: While “I feel it’s all he wants me for” was fairly low, at 15%, it still means plenty of women feel this way. They may or may not be right, but it’s killing the couple’s sex life.
  • Ready fire aim: A lack of foreplay was a reason for refusing for one woman in eight. However, I suspect even more would say they don’t enjoy sex much due to a lack of foreplay. It’s nice this was fairly low, and it’s an easy thing to fix.
  • All the rest: The remaining ten answers were chosen by fewer than 10% of those answering.

WOMEN: Why do you say no to sex?

Too tried 66.7%
It’s late and/or getting up early in the morning 49.1%
We have not connected emotionally 44.4%
Stressed 29.8%
He’s been rude to me recently 29.2%
Physical pain 19.9%
He thinks it means everything is okay, and it’s not 17.5%
It would take way to much time and effort to climax 16.4%
I don’t like how I look 16.4%
I feel it’s all he wants me for 15.2%
There is never enough foreplay 12.3%
I’ve rarely or never climax 8.8%
Not enough privacy 8.8%
He does not turn me on 7.6%
He does not take care of me; when he’s done, he thinks it’s over 7.6%
He smells bad 7.0%
If I do, he “wins” 5.8%
He’s too rough 3.5%
He always wants to do things I don’t like 2.9%
I think sex is wrong or gross 1.8%
I just don’t love him any more 1.2%

Comments from the women:

  • I never say no. I have even told my husband that i’m up for it anytime he wants it. ;)
  • usually it’s just that one of us is not comfortable, physically, mentally, or just with the environment.
  • He lies to me. I can’t trust him.
  • Sometimes I just feel gross, like I’m not clean enough or whatnot.
  • “that” time of the month
  • young children :)
  • When I’m not feeling healthy
  • He has said no to me so many times, that I can barely be in the mood!
  • I don’t say no…..
  • I don’t say no but he usually doesn’t ask
  • If the marriage has no mental,emotional,spiritual conection. How can I respond sexually.
  • It doesn’t feel as good as it used to or hurts too much.
  • I have several chronic conditions that come with some complications that make sex uncomfortable.
  • Sex can be pleasurable, but I never (or rarely) have a desire for it. It’s just too much effort and not something I really crave.
  • He’s the one who says no.
  • He had prostrate cancer We rarely have it.
  • If I’m sick
  • The only time I will say no to sex is if I’m throwing up or menstruating. Otherwise, he’s the one that’s usually saying no.
  • He doesn’t seem interested.
  • pregnant/sick
  • He does not ask Porn issues and Masturbation
  • vertigo when I lay down causes nausea and panic, so I have to start the night semi sitting, my husband can tell I’m nauseated and feels bad about bringing it up.
  • Not enough time to relax, or anticipate previous to starting
  • We don’ t have time. Otherwise, we don’t say “no”
  • he only wants to do it in the morning, i am still half asleep
  • he appears soooo needy
  • Makes me feel vulnerable
  • Menstrual cycle
  • bitter from doing everything (housework, bills, lawn care…) with zero help from him

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71 comments
Longinghubby
Longinghubby

I don't want to belittle anyone but most these reasons are crap.

Too tired: Myself included it will literally take less then 10mins. Suck it up not just for your husband but yourself. There's a good chance you will enjoy it and the more you do it the better it gets normally.

To late got to get up early: That's crap refer to "Too tired". 10 mins won't make or break your morning and will likely make you sleep better.

No emotional connection: sex is filled with emotion, hormones, endorphins... I believe the physical will lead to emotional. That's why there's love at first sight. "Man I'd love to bang that hottie" bad example but point made. Build emotion on the physical.

Stressed: Sex relieves stress. Scientific fact. Unless there's like a abuse history or something. By the by. I am not a doctor or anything.

He's been rude RECENTLY: Really are you five. Get over it. If not then own him. Call him into the bedroom lock the door tell him to get to licking. Make him pay a lil. But not to much. I he likes it to much he'll be rude all the time.

Pain: Pending physical issue, and not to be rude, things stretch some and get better. Remember your first time.

He thinks everything is ok: Well then talk to him tell him it's not. Resolve the issue and get to humping. You can't be angry for ever. Sex does help some issues. If the issues are that bad get counseling.

Take to long to climax: Another fact... In general the more you has sex the easier it is to get there for women. For men it's the other way. More sex more stamina. If nothing else teach your man how to get you there. If you teach him you will come. Field of dreams reference, boom.

I don't like how I look: My experience says I don't like how I look means I don't feel sexy. For starters if he wants sex from you it means you turn him on ie. he finds you sexy. Also sex is sexy, unless it's dirty and nasty. Then it's really sexy. More so, sex is exercise and fun sooo... It will burn calories, tighten things up, and if your man wanting doesn't make you feel good then I don't know what to say.

It's all he wants from me: Here's another bad analogy... Think of your body like a bacon dog treat. Just walking and strutting threw the house looking all tasty. Got the dog drooling like crazy. Got the dog going nuts humping pillows and stuff. Then it's bed time and you put the treat back in the drawer right next to where the dog sleeps. All night that dog is gonna dream about the bacon treat and how great it would to just lick it till there's no flavor left in it. See what I do there. ;)

So long story short. At some point you fell in love with this man. Lusted over him. Thought of nothing else but getting home to him. Then marriage, bills, kids, and on and on more excuses. And that's what they are, excuses. Stop making excuses let him enjoy you an more so you enjoy him, sexually. Remember sex is FUN. Waxing an plucking body hair is not fun but you make time for that.

One last thing. Sex makes men feel like a man!! An awesome man!! So if he upset or mad or grumpy, whatever it will improve his mood. Therefore very likely improving how you feel and how the marine is going and it should make you feel good know that's because of you and what you did. Yet another scientific fact!!

john71
john71

Wife tells me, your never happy.

Deposed
Deposed

My apologies for the typos. Typing on a phone in the airport is harder than it looks, at least for me.

Deposed
Deposed

Interesting that a wife's choice to defraud her husband is re-framed to be something he did, failed to do or is.  Maybe instead of feeding her rebellion he ought to instead gently instruct her that she is breaking her covenant and sinning against her husband and God.  That way he would be sanctifying his wife by washing and watering her with the Word and living with her with knowlege; that is knowlege of the Word and of her ongoing rebellion. In this way he is performing as the head of her and as Christ's appointed in her life.

unhappy n love
unhappy n love

What can I say not even touching yes we are married shes even called me a chauvinist I spend everything  cook always washing dishes waiting on her Yet one mistake an shes all over me She claims I am not romantic enough we are both 65 and I have erectile problems but she is not even wanting to try

beedude
beedude

I have talked to my wife numerous times about my needs and wants, i usually wait 2 months before breaking my silence that it has been 2 months. She constantly tells me that shes sorry and will work on it and then we go right back to the beigining again. She is a teacher and coach and we have a 15 month old daughter and i understand the demand and stress she goes through on a daily basis so i cook i clean i take care of our daughter 80% of the time i am sweet and romantic send her flowers for no reason at all except just to tell her i love her. We only have sex when she wants it or allows it, every time i want sex its the same excuse tomorrow and tomorrow turns into tomorrow into not at all. She tells me shoe would like me to just take her but when i think about doing it i hear her say keywords like im tiered or i have a headache when she says those keywords i dont even try because those are the usual reasons most of the time. I am tiered of having the same conversation over and over and it not ending in results i hace suggested counceling but she thinks if we cant fix problems on our own then what are we doing together. Im starting to feel resentful and looking at the possibility to go out side of our marriage but i dont want to hurt her or set a bad example as a father to my daughter. What can i do please help.

feidlimid athol
feidlimid athol

ive read countless articles on this.  while i can respect the main reasons women have, i feel in my heart, at the same time some women are just completely selfish, spoiled and apathetic.  yes men are dogs, deal with it.  we  deal with menstruation and countless other female issues, some better than others.  i could go on all night.  bottom line is i am just plain hurt and often suicidal because i feel like my wife doesn't love me.  we have children and a home and a life.  ive tried counseling and stopped drinking, and done everything she's asked me to do.  it seems like in the past when i was misbehaving or being less understanding she was more interested in the challenge.  now that i put her needs first she walks all over me and uses her power.  well whatever.  just wanted to reach out, or jot down what might be my last words.  thanks for not trying for me honey.



Oifvet
Oifvet

Preveis to this I was going to porn, masturbation but I am trying slow, by tuching kissing but I want her to tell me or show me that she is interested in having sex, so frustrated I need to kissing touching

Oifvet
Oifvet

61/62, wife had breast cancer years , but after I come back from Iraq wife has no intrest  after I had a breakbown and started talking about not having sex and other issues  she stated we can work on that!!,

So where can I start.

ladybug
ladybug

For me, it's not that I don't want sex, but it's just that I don't want sex with him. The reason I don't want sex with him is because he spends a lot of time looking at porn. What makes it even worse is the porn he looks at is of 13 year old girls mostly, though many look to be about 15. When out and about, he can't not look at young girls. And I've seen him check out ones who look to be in junior high. Short and extremely skinny... just entering puberty. Now, just his touch grosses me out, lol! I read a bunch of articles about this, and they all say it's normal; that I'm over reacting. Maybe, but I'd rather be single again and forever than have sex with him. Yuck! Apparently, I'm not the only one. Many of my friends have confessed to not wanting sex with their husbands because they look at porn.

Jeffrey
Jeffrey

Now ask if the woman / wife have told their husbands any of this.. That would be sitting down and talking about it, not being a bitch about it.. did I say that?

Pearl
Pearl

Loved the survey, it confirms much. Personally, I think porn is a major factor when men say no. However, low T may play a part, too.

john71
john71

So freaking true...I wish my wife would believe this. I just gave up trying to have sex with her..because when I do try and have sex with her she keeps telling me no. So I stopped trying.

TheGenerousHusband
TheGenerousHusband moderator

@john71 I think it is easy to mistake "I would also like _____" for "I am not happy with what we already do.

frustrated_dude
frustrated_dude

I agree we as men fall for the person we want them to be. When we say I do They have a subliminal list of I don'ts. Which we find out afterwards it is very misleading.and they have a reason for everything and it is always your fault no matter how great of a husband you are. I can't touch her without thinking that all I want is sex. I can buy her things and be the greatest husband ever, but if I attempt to get sex for that she says "I am not a prostitute just because you give money or buy me something doesnt mean I need to have sex with you". But in a sense that is what they make us believe when we are in a relationship... We have to buy them things or spend money on them for them to even think about sex...WTF!

TheGenerousHusband
TheGenerousHusband moderator

@Deposed I'm al about 1 Cor 7:5, but if a man makes it difficult for his wife to want or have sex he needs to understand and own that. Ignoring his sin is just as wrong as ignoring her sin.

AmyJoMiller
AmyJoMiller

@beedudeDoes she have any medical issues or take any medications that have sexual side effects?? 

SonaFalk
SonaFalk

I can answer this - she is still hurt from the past. Yes, you may be Bill Cosby now, but she errs on the side of caution due to what has happened and what may happen again. You aren't some pet project to her, and I pray you never told her that. Sex is a completely emotional vulnerable experience for us (perhaps if men carried a child for 9 months, they might be a bit more sympathetic), and if our men has emotionally hurt us in the past....it creates a hole. Trust and security are 2 conditions that must be met before (willing) sex can happen! Build trust and security, rather emotionally or physically!!!

TheGenerousHusband
TheGenerousHusband moderator

@feidlimid athol  You certainly have my prayers. Have you told her how deeply this hurts you? Not just said it, but helped her to understand it? I would suggest some joint counselling with this being one of the things discussed.

TheGenerousHusband
TheGenerousHusband moderator

@Oifvet It sounds to me like she is willing to be receptive, meaning if you ask she will say yes. Expecting her to ask you is a much bigger thing, and she may be unable to do that. Can you meet her half way?

Deposed
Deposed

@ladybug


If your husband is looking at porn that is his sin,  but that in no way justifies your sin of defrauding him.  (I do understand it makes the vulerabilty and trust that accompanied great sex difficult) In fact your continued sin is fueling his his continued spiral into depravity and adversely affecting his repentance.  You are to be his exclusive object/ subject of sexual expression.  When that sexual affection is withheld the very fires that make the marriage bed hot  will find somewhere else to burn that is the nature of fire.  It is better to may than to burn, but pity the man who is married and the bride that he loves refuses his warmth.  You are most likely not the victim,  but a contributor or provocateur of his sin.  You cannot force his repentance,  but you can choose your own repentance;  failure to do that you are dooming both you and your husband to a life of misery and brokenness. 

The Generous Husband
The Generous Husband

ladybug - If he is looking at actual porn of 13 or 15 year olds he is breaking the law. There are significant problem with this on many levels. Please talk to someone about this, and get some good legal advice, as you might be seen as an accomplice depending on the situation.

NJ
NJ

The porn issue can be a question of the chicken and the egg. Not to justify it, but some men turn to porn when they feel unloved and unwanted by their wives from too much sexual rejection.

The Generous Husband
The Generous Husband

Pearl - Yes, porn is a big issue, and more so every day. Still, more often than not it is a part a multi-part issue, not the whole.

john71
john71

I have to be a SUPER SUPER good boy to get one of those lol

TheGenerousHusband
TheGenerousHusband moderator

@frustrated_dude I would say that is about her, not you. It is because of her fears and feelings. The challenge is figuring out what is eating her and getting her to deal with it.

Deposed
Deposed

@TheGenerousHusband @Deposed 1 Corinthians 7 provides only one normative exception for marital intimacy and desire is not that enumerated exception.  It is up to her to foster desire for her husband (he also for her); this was part of her covenant vow entering into the marriage.  Failure to perform this most pleasant duty is to turn your spouse over to the Adversary to be tempted.  This is to strip away his/her protection and blessed outlet for sex and oneness in marriage.  Further it strips a man of his sexual identity and man leaving him helpless against an usurpation of his Christ given duty of headship.  (When her feelings justify rebellion of his authority over her body, then in like manner her feelings can be used to justify her violating the submission ordinances in all other areas; turning Christ's law order for family roles upside down. ) Scriptures provide a linkage between burning in lust and sexual defrauding, they in no way provide justification or excuse to defraud because one's autonomous feelings are not placated sufficiently to kindle desire without effort.  1 Peter 3 allows no such room for her to rebel against his authority due to his harsh treatment.  (Peter does not condone harsh treament only that it is not cause to fully submit as to Christ.)  To assume the blame on the man is to provide cover and excuse for the woman and her continued rebellion and discontent.  


I am very much concerned that the evangelical community, while trying to strengthen families is in reality by their practice paving the way for more divorce and marital grief, simply because it continues to resist a most clear and forward reading of the Scriptures regarding marriage.  We can continue to deny that feminism has won in culture and our churches  decisively or we can repent and once again to commit to build our families on the pattern provided by the authority of the Word of God.  

feidlimid athol
feidlimid athol

Oh save your banality for someone who hasn't heard these rubbish excuses for over a decade. You birth children. Standing ovation okay. We deal with your insane hormone changes for longer than nine months. How about this: every time she was pregnant she would beg for sex towards the end because she believed it to help induce labor. How about, me staying home with my children more than her because she's this business professional that potentially earns more money?

I'm sure you say that I'm a loser for that and I probably don't get sex because I don't make enough money. Well real men raise their kids. Also, if your husband was choosing porn over you, as a man, I can assure you that you are not attractive to him. Women insecure over porn just have no self confidence. The females in porn are completely disgusting to any man who could otherwise have a decent woman. You are obviously a jilted woman and I should have specified that I don't need advice from someone like you. You use too many explanation points and you write like someone who didn't graduate middle school.

Be careful where you run your mouth on the internet. I was putting my heart out there and being honest. Always a bad idea these days because of trolls like you who just chime in without even contemplating how ignorant you sound.

I'm sure you have an amazing retort. Just save it. You'll be wasting more time than I just did writing this.

feidlimid athol
feidlimid athol

@TheGenerousHusband @feidlimid athol  


yes, sorry, i meant weve tried counseling.  she hated it and dropped out after maybe 6 sessions.  i continue to see the counselor who believes i should get out of here.  its hard to find reasons to stay when a professional that you trust is in agreement.  she knows it upsets me and i try so hard to not focus on sex, but it doesnt seem natural to suppress what is natural.  

SheamusDuffy
SheamusDuffy

@TheGenerousHusband @Oifvet Reading through these comments and replies leaves me with the sense that it is ultimately the man's fault if the marriage is without sex, and it is the man's responsibility to do something about it.  It seems there are a hundred reasons given for why women do not want sex, may not be capable of having sex, or shouldn't be expected to have it unless they want it.  I've been married for 17 years and could almost count the number of times my wife and I have made love--zero in the last two years.  It is driving me mad, and now I'm made to feel guilty because it's due to something I'm doing wrong or not doing right.  I don't mean to sound selfish, but I am just so frustrated.  I love my wife and want to hold her in my arms and make gentle love to her.  She knows I do because I've told her so.  I use terms of endearment with her everyday, but she never reciprocates.  Maybe the relationship is dead and I'm just not getting the message.

The Generous Husband
The Generous Husband

NJ - While I can't argue it does happen, I fear it is all too often used as an excuse by men to do something they wanted to do anyway. Beyond that, it's a vicious cycle that makes the chances of a healthy sex life with their wife less and less likely. In years gone by it was not unheard of for a man to never look at porn till he was married and being rejected. Today that is virtually impossible, as you would be hard pressed to find a man under 30 who did not see porn prior to being married.

TheGenerousHusband
TheGenerousHusband moderator

@Deposed @TheGenerousHusband "It is up to her to foster desire for her husband" - Really? Then based on the Christ is to the chruch as husband is to wife it is up to us to foster desire for God!

"Pleasant duty" - what if it is not pleasant? What is he is making it unpleasant?

Are you suggesting a man cannot be a proper head if his wife is not providing sex?

As to authority over her body, the Bible gives her the exact same authority over his body.


I fully agree with you that there is no excuse for refusal, but if we ignore the bigger picture we are choosing to ignore other sins. 


As for your last paragraph, I address that in my June 29th post.

TheGenerousHusband
TheGenerousHusband moderator

@feidlimid athol @TheGenerousHusband  Have you made it painfully clear to her what is likely to happen if nothing changes? Have you said that for so long without doing it she no longer believes you? Or does the idea of being along bother less than the idea of having more sex?

TheGenerousHusband
TheGenerousHusband moderator

@SheamusDuffy @TheGenerousHusband @Oifvet If we want to place blame, I would blame society. Before you decide I am blaming the guys, please read my recent post The Sex Drive God Gave You http://bit.ly/1vdikV5

Because I am talking to men here, I usually give men ideas on how to bring about change. When I talk to women, I focus more on what they can do to bring about changes. 

Deposed
Deposed

@The Generous Husband


Porn could also be the excuse by women to do something they wanted to do anyway; withhold from the man that no longer gives her status, thrills or whatever she might feel she needs to be happy.   In her selfishness she is turning her husband over to Satan for a most grievous trial; that is, if nothing else, the antithesis of love.

Teraisa
Teraisa

Amazing reply! Men are the head; they need to respect their duties more so than wives-because their actions and inactions are teaching their wives.

Deposed
Deposed

@TheGenerousHusband @Deposed


Q:2.Are you suggesting a man cannot be a proper head if his wife is not providing sex?


If a wife is defrauding her husband she us already the head of the bed.  In most cases a husband desires to please his wife and that good desire can be a means of control.  No sex for you if you do not please me the way I insist is the unspoken threat and lever to usurp headship.  So I'd there is defrauding in bed, there is usually a challenge to the the head.  Most churches and ministries will rally behind a wide when a husband oppose a the coup with words like verbal / emotional abuse you poor dear ....


Some will automatically blame the man even while he is being defrauded.

Deposed
Deposed

@TheGenerousHusband @Deposed 


Q:1 <i>Then based on the Christ is to the chruch as husband is to wife it is up to us to foster desire for God!</I>

<p>

Yes, absolutely we are to stir up, kindle and increase our affections to the Lord.  The means of grace like: psalm singing, worsip, hymns, prayer, the Lord's supper, confession and devotional reading of God's Word all contribute to our fostering our desire for our Lord.  

<p>

In like manner a spouse is to stir up passion for their mate.  A wife who imitates Sarah who even calls her husband Lord;  she (or he as the case might be) has a duty to prepare them selves for the pure and undefiled celebration of oneness.  And like worship that is performed with the lips only and is distasteful to the Lord, so also a spouse that has sex with the hips only and their heart us far from their spouse is an offense to the other and to the Lord to whom they covenanted in marriage (remember the marriage vow is made to God).  There is no Biblical warrant or reason that would justify a spouses unwillingness to fully give themselves sexually, including preperation by stirring up desire, to their spouse.  


To automatically blame a husband for a wive's disengagement, parrticularly in a period of mass feminine rebellion, is similar to blaming Christ for the church of Laodicea ' s lukewarmness, and the church at Ephesus' lovelessness.  It is antithetical to scripture and utterly unfair to men and the Lord.  It further undercuts God's design for the family and further encourages mutiny in the home.

Deposed
Deposed

@TheGenerousHusband @SheamusDuffy @Oifvet


If you want place the blame...place the blame of defrauding on the partner defrauding. If you need other contributors,  look no further than churches and ministries that won't hold women accountable for their sins,  but rather tingle itching ears, looking to make the women happy. 

TheGenerousHusband
TheGenerousHusband moderator

@Deposed You make it sound as if a man being refused sex is powerless to avoid porn. Just as you complain about those who excuse her sin of refusal, you seem to be excusing or minimising his sin. By Jesus's definition, porn use is adultery.

Yes, the church needs to say more about sexual refusal. However, porn use is more common in the church than sexual refusal. When are we going to get serious about the fact most married Christian men are using porn?

TheGenerousHusband
TheGenerousHusband moderator

@Deposed @TheGenerousHusband No, not at all. He is expected to be proper head even if she is not providing sex!


! Cor 7 is very clear, and I see no loop holes. Sexual refusal is sin, period.

Deposed
Deposed

@TheGenerousHusband @Deposed


Not powerless, but more like the head of a body without a heart to circulate blood.  Eventally tje system will fail, it is not designed for indivualness but union.  God made the two one changing their nature from individuals,  to a couple.  A married man is fundamentally different than a single man, he is only operating within design spec when he is sexually united to his wife. 


1 Corinthians 7:5 NASB


Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.


For many men who are being defrauded,  porn may be the only outlet they see to avoid abandoning their family while they are sexually abandoned by thier own wife.  Their is a fundamental difference between one who is addicted to strong drink and one who is perishing (Prev 31:6).  Likewise there is a fundamental difference between one who uses porn listing to have sex with another other than his wife,  adulterous 

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@TheGenerousHusband @Deposed


He is the head by God given authority, but his ability to function as the head is impaired by her rebellion and the empowerment from the church.  This is why I stated that if she is defrauding him, his course of action is to correct her from the Word of God and to act from his duty as head and sanctify her.  He should not seek to bribe her feelings, but love her according to scripture, exhorting her and even rebuking her if she continues in her sin.

TheGenerousHusband
TheGenerousHusband moderator

@Deposed @TheGenerousHusband I agree a lack of sex makes all sexual temptations stronger. However, if the man used porn before, and especially if he was using it even when his wife was available, blaming a lack of sex for the porn use is disingenuous. 

As to porn being adultery, what Jesus said in 

Matthew 5:28 sure seems to say that. If hate is like murder, how is porn not like adultery? 

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@TheGenerousHusband @Deposed

continued...There is a fundamental difference between one who uses porn to lust after i.e. to have sex with one not his wife,  and the one who uses porn to dream of sex with his wife as a comfort to ongoing defrauding, especially in a climate where he is blamed for his sin and her sin.  If he complains about the situation he is likely to be accused as unloving, a poor leader and a pervert.  


Porn would not be near the problem in Christendom that it is, if wives were less fearful and controlling in bed.  Like it or not mainstream culture,  not just porn has raised the bar for sexual passion,  energy and imagination.   The church is not immune,  nor should it desire to be,  rather it should exhort that within the bounds of marriage sex is pure and undefiled, to be intoxicated with the wife of your youth and to find satisfaction in her breasts at all times.   If either desires intimacy then intimacy should be forthcoming.  (There are exceptions like: agreed time of mutual fasting, and severe health issues.)  Fire is designed to burn, it will either burn down the house or provide warmth and fuel for dominion, but in order to do the later both spouses must be willing and committed to that end.   

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@TheGenerousHusband @Deposed


To look at a woman to lust after her is like adultery.  But not all adultery is equal, (looking is not an OT capitol offense) and most men who do not use porn still lust.  They might lust after the girl at Starbucks,  or on the commercials or in the pew next to them.   The more a husband tries to overcome his sexual drive without channeling it toward his wife the more he will inflame his flesh.  If we'd think the way Jesus was, porn is potentially everything,  because anything can fan the flames of desire or discontent.  


The point of the sermon on the mount was not to stay away from porn, (although that is wise Proverbs 5:8), but that your self righteous staying away is still not enough.   You can never be good enough to deserve grace, nor pure enough to never have impure dedires. God judges the heart and the heart is wicked in need of a savoir.  He did not gives us a new command,  but the old one explained. 1 Jn 2:7 Thus Jesus is not expanding the legal definition of adultery for civic or use in divorce justification, but is describing just how depraved men are desperate for grace.  The law keeping Jews who were in attendance were in denial of the desperate need; Jesus was teaching them there is only one way to the Father.


So seeing a woman in a provocative pose is not always a sin.  If it drives a man to desire his own wife then, is it the same if it drives to want another?  Of course not, the reaction of the heart changes the situation.  In other words even as there are many forms of sexually provocative literature, many variations on for and Rather than join the chorus of porn is evil (without even knowing what porn is) Jesus goes after the heart that will not enjoy his own wife.   Paul joins Christ in affirming a sexual marriage.  


Sexual ethics just like all other areas of ethics is the application of God's law to people in situations.  The people matter and the situation matters.  

TheGenerousHusband
TheGenerousHusband moderator

@Deposed @TheGenerousHusband How does porn help a man dream of sex with his wife? He looks at women who are not his wife, doing things his wife would not do (and may not be able to do) and that somehow adds up to thinking about his wife?


Today most men enter marriage with hundreds or thousands of hours of porn use behind them. These men cannot blame their wives for what happened before they got married, can they? Most men think getting married will magically make their porn use go away, but it does not. Three to six months later they are back to porn, even if their wife is still very willing.


I am very much about telling women AND MEN to stop refusing sexually. However, I am also about telling men AND WOMEN to stop using porn. While each can increase the temptation to the other, both exist without the other in some couples. Both are wrong, and both need to be dealt with. Anyone who focuses on one and ignores the other is adding to the problem, IMHO.

SonaFalk
SonaFalk

My husband could only get off to porn. Do you know what that did to our sex life and almost did to our marriage? I refused him because why would he need me, when he can look at air brushed beauties all day?! 5 years later we are o.k finally. After almost breaking up this family, divorce, and much emotional turmoil from both of us...he's porn free. I feel happy and secure to know I have his full attention, my children will never accidentally see daddy watching porn, and he can actually enjoy his wife fully! Seriously....porn IS the devils #1 tool for corrupting marriage. Heck, look at people trying to JUSTIFY it, while admitting it's wrong!!!

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@TheGenerousHusband @Deposed


You ask How does porn help a man dream of sex with his wife?


wrong question, the correct question is how might...not how does because it very well might not.


The answer is  perhaps the same way a man watching an auto race or an episode of Fast and Furious dreams /wants to drive his own car fast.  Or perhaps how a cook samples another's cuisine and is inspired to cook up his own masterpiece.   Is it really that difficult to imagine that one who desires sex with his wife is actually desiring her as he reads/watches/hears a woman giving herself generously to her partner?  Perhaps  projection has occluded your empathy.

TheGenerousHusband
TheGenerousHusband moderator

@SonaFalk I am fine with a woman saying "No sex till you deal with the porn". However, she must have proven she is willing and able to be sexually available in the past for this be in any way fair. If she has been withholding, she is saying "I will stop my sin after you stop your sin."

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