This is a guest post by my friend J. Parker. More info on J at the bottom. enjoy!
Why She Communicates the Way She Does (and It May Not Be What You Think)
For the most part, women aren’t doing it on purpose—that is, being confusing. Yet I’ve heard and read the frustration of many husbands whose wives expect them to pick up on what she wants based on hints and clues and open-ended questions.
Some men think she’s playing games or trying to manipulate him. I fully admit that some women do play games and try to manipulate, but they’re a minority. We ladies hear those women talk behind your back, and we don’t like what they’re doing either. But that’s not what’s happening for the vast majority of women.
While I have repeatedly explained to wives why they should be much more straightforward with the men in their lives, I also think it’s helpful for you guys to hear from a woman why your perception of her intent or behavior might not be what she’s thinking or doing. It’s more likely a common gender difference in how we communicate. Indeed, it’s mostly hard-wired, meaning it’s how God made us. What do I mean? Let’s take a look at how men and women communicate differently.
Assertive vs. Polite
Have you heard of “nice girl syndrome”? It’s a real thing, believe me. If you are too straightforward or blunt as a woman, you get labeled a, well, a word that rhymes with “ditch.” And that’s about how you get treated too. Women socialize one another to be polite more than assertive, sweet more than strong, “nice” more than bold.
Growing up in the church, one of the verses I heard most was: “Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight” (1 Peter 3:4). “Gentle and quiet” was often conveyed as “don’t speak your mind.” So having to say something straight out can actually feel like being too pushy, even unfeminine or ungodly.
Status vs. Connection
Deborah Tannen, Ph.D., linguist and author of You Just Don’t Understand Me, has studied gender communication extensively, and she makes the point that men’s conversational rituals are often about exchanging information and negotiating status, while women’s conversations tend to be about building and maintaining relationships.
By our very nature, women’s goal in communication is understanding each other better. We often think that should be your goal too — so why aren’t you trying just as hard to figure us out as we try to figure you out? It’s not a shell game we’re playing; it’s a relational dance we learned while growing up and playing with other girls.
Direct vs. Indirect
One research study about communication differences in the workplace had participants identify strengths and weaknesses in one another. Women said that men were “overly blunt and direct,” while men said that women were “meandering – won’t get to the point.”
Okay, but if the point for her is to build relationships, then just cutting through all the red tape and saying, “I want X” feels like a cheat. To her, the conversation becomes transactional rather than relational. So there’s a reason she’s being indirect, because the point is, again, getting to know each other and showing you understand each other.
Us vs Them
There’s a real debate in the research about whether women are better at detecting emotions than men. More studies have said yes, others have said no, but one interesting finding from two separate studies was that women read women better and men read men better.
Which means that sometimes we think we’re broadcasting an emotion that he should be able to get, because our girlfriends all see it. Sure, we should know better, but people instinctively do this — expect how we view things is how others view them. What helps is to become aware of findings like this and recognize that you have to ask, clarify, and confirm your understandings with each other.
Straightforward vs Subtle
Research has supported what many of we women have also experienced: we pick up on subtlety better than our male counterparts. While men and women are equal in identifying full-blown facial expressions, women are better able to recognize less intense expressions.
God may have hardwired this one, since many women consider this ability key to good mothering. As nurturers, we often need to look at our child and quickly determine what he or she needs. But that also means we can (erroneously) think you in turn can figure out our subtlety.
What are we supposed to do with all this information? Look, I’m not saying that communication should be on her terms. But when we understand that these differences are kind of built into the system, we can at least give ourselves a break for not understanding each other right away and knowing that we may both need to put ourselves in one another’s shoes, or brains, as best we can. So that we can communicate well in marriage.
J. Parker is Christian author and speaker who blogs at Hot, Holy & Humorous and uses a biblical perspective and a blunt sense of humor to foster godly sexuality. She has penned three books on sexual intimacy in marriage, including Hot, Holy, and Humorous: Sex in Marriage by God’s Design.
Married for 25 years, J. has fondly nicknamed her logical husband “Spock,” has two teenage sons, and lives in the great state of Texas. She holds a master’s degree in counseling, yet it’s her personal story of redemption that fuels her passion for passion.
Sources:
- Science Daily – Science Daily – Women Outperform Men When Identifying Emotions
- NY Daily News – NY Daily News – Men have harder time reading women’s emotions: study
- Deborah Tannen – Deborah Tannen – gender specific language rituals
- Forbes – Forbes – Is Your Communication Style Dictated By Your Gender?
- Yes! Magazine – Yes! Magazine – Women Are Better At Expressing Emotions, Right? Why It’s Not That Simple
- PubMed.gov – PubMed.gov – Expression intensity, gender and facial emotion recognition: Women recognize only subtle facial emotions better than men
Image Credit: ©AntonioGuillem, | Fotolia
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I think this is a very good explanation and makes sense. The issue is not necessarily that women and men communicate differently, although that’s certainly a challenge we should all work at. Many times men are playing the losing game of trying to guess what their wives want and getting it wrong, and even the effort is considered a failure by the woman because “if he cared he would know what I’ve been trying to tell him.”
I encourage every man to refuse to play the game at all. Talk to her very early in the relationship and tell her that you want to please her, and if she doesn’t communicate clearly what her desires are then you won’t be able to. The key though, is that when she is clear about want she wants and needs, that you have to respond in love to meet her effort. If she comes out and tells you that she needs more time to talk each week or a special weekend getaway instead of just hinting at it, then you’d better perform.
If couples are blunt and clear at the start it gets easier to be more successfully spontaneous or present surprises or catch hints later on.
Brian, I agree with your idea on just letting her know. But this is where I was really hoping to make a difference. You say that when she says, “if he cared he would know what I’ve been trying to tell him,” you response is “I encourage every man to refuse to play the game at all.” But what I’m hoping you see is that it’s not a “game” to her. Until she understands why this won’t happen (our communication differences), then she honestly believes he’s intentionally not figuring it out.
But if you can address how men and women think differently, then maybe you’ll both adapt to what the other needs. In this case, I think it’s easier for her to just say what she wants than for y’all to suddenly be able to read subtlety at a level you probably won’t get. (Which is why I say that women a lot.) But she has to understand that you’re not doing it on purpose, just like I hope you understand she’s trying to be difficult on purpose.
To me it really doesn’t matter if she thinks it’s a game or not. When I said “playing the game” it’s just as effective as a figure of speech. Wives trying to give subtle hints may not think they are playing a game but to a man almost everything is a game in that it’s something to overcome and win at.
Whether that’s performing in his profession, fixing a car, or figuring out why his wife isn’t happy I tend to see the world in terms of problems that need to be solved. This is why I was so confused when my wife would come home and tell me about all the problems she had at work with her (mostly female) coworkers, and then she would get upset when I would offer advice about what she should do to fix those issues. After all, why are you telling me all this if you don’t want a solution to your problem?
I completely take your point that we shouldn’t be angry at our wives and it’s very good to understand why they do this. However, I don’t think the solution for most couples is any different than what I said. Men: don’t play the game because you can’t win it. If you can’t win the game, change the rules. By having women be direct (as hard as that might be) men can understand how to make thier wives happy and everyone wins.
Now, I’m not saying that men shouldn’t try to get better at understanding how thier wife communicates, and we all should. But being direct is far simpler and more effective so we should start with that.
Brian, I think we’re so close on the final suggestions here. But then something like this: “If you can’t win the game, change the rules.” Which in this case means changing them to HIS rules. And I get that, because I do believe women can help by being more direct, but if the whole prescription is “having women be direct,” then aren’t you’re essentially saying that she has to be the one to play HIS game?
This is why I just don’t even like the whole talk of “games.” It’s a relationship, not a sport! When we play games, we know it’s not reality and the outcome doesn’t matter all that much in the end. (Unless you’re an Astros fan like me, in which case the World Series win mattered a lot! But I digress…) But marriage does matter. So labeling it a game pricks at the same concern for women, cutting at our desire to connect, not compete — especially with the one we love most.
If the word game is what is making this hard to take, then remove it, but this is a blog geared towards men and I’m telling you that to men it’s a game. Some games just have much higher stakes. Now that that’s out of the way, let’s talk about the fairness of asking the wife who is communicating in a very unclear way to be more clear and direct. What makes more sense and is better for the marriage, at least in the early stages? Does it seem more likely to achieve success (defined as both partners being happier overall and the husband being empowered to understand what his wife needs and wants) if the husband is asked to learn to listen to a far more complex and complicated way of understanding things?
Let’s ask it another way. If you had to communicate to an employee, which method would you use to achieve a clear result, direct or indirect? Now, over time it’s possible that an employee would be able to pick up on the desires and nuances that his boss had and be able to anticipate them, but this is definitely not likely at first and some men never react well without clear communication. It’s the same with marriage.
So yes, I’m absolutely saying that women should be direct and it doesn’t really matter if it’s fair or not. What matters is that it’s effective. Over time, some if not most men will be able to pick up on subtle hints, but some just never will. It’s not selfish for a man to want to know how to make his wife happy. Men are socialized to want to make our wives happy, we just don’t know how sometimes and this is one area that can help that.
And yet … we’re explaining what it takes to make a wife happy and you’re rejecting it because it’s not easy, you don’t feel like it, and you don’t care.
It is frequently not the object that makes a woman happy. It is the desire to be understood, to be listened to, to be wanted. It is a desire to be known. If you tell her that her desire to be known is stupid, it doesn’t matter if she gives you a list of stuff to buy for birthdays and anniversaries. You have explicitly told her that the thing she really wants — for you to know her — is stupid and hard and not fair and your live will be easier if you don’t mess with it.
A diamond tennis bracelet or a night out won’t actually accomplish what you’re trying to accomplish. Because it was never about the bracelet or the restaurant. It was about you listening to her and building your relationship and getting to know her as a person.
BTW, that’s not a game. She’s not your enemy. You’re not in competition. The “perfect” gift is not that prize that you use to beat her. That thinking inherently undermines what she wants.
It’s not easy to get to know another person like that. It’s natural to women and not to men. Explaining that you gain knowledge of another person through different methods is not a bad thing, especially if women haven’t been around men a lot (bad father figure, no brothers). But telling her that everything about the way she is communicating is wrong and makes your life harder is not the same thing as saying that you have a different communication style. And demanding that she change in perpetuity so that you don’t have to do anything is counterproductive.
Also BTW, even a crappy boss has the power to promote or fire an employee. The boss has a lot less to lose than the employee does, so it’s more on the employee to adapt than on the boss — that may be unwise of the boss in the long wrong, but refusing to adapt to a capricious boss has a much worse effect on the employee in the short term.
But by the same token if she’s not getting what she wants, and he’s said he’s trying to understand, but doesn’t get hints and indirect talk, is it really in her best interest to continue with the indirect communication?
It may not be a game to you, but if other men feel like I’ve felt on occasion, I just want to stop feeling like I’m losing.
Not trying to win, I just want to stop losing. Fruitless efforts will turn into no effort if no successes are witness after trying very hard.
The point isn’t “take me to Delmonico’s at 8pm on Thursday.” The point is to have a conversation that a man listens to. That is what she wants — to be heard and understood.
And just to say, if you feel like your efforts are wasted or fruitless and she seems unhappy — your wife probably is really unhappy. She’s not mentally going “yes, I beat him, IN YOUR FACE.” Like it’s a game that she won. She’s feeling sad and lost, too.
That’s why I keep saying it isn’t a game. She’s not “winning” just because it feels like you’re losing.
BTW, I’m not saying don’t try to talk about this. If you’re both sad — for heaven’s sake, TALK ABOUT IT. Just don’t mentally frame it as a “game” where she makes up the rules so she can “win” and “beat” you. Because I guarantee that’s not how she feels — she wants you to win because she wants you to connect with her.
But why not? Why not “I’d like to go to Delmonico’s this weekend?”
If that’s what she wants to do, then say it.
If you are not happy say, “I’m not happy.”
Especially if he asks, “How are you?” If the answer back is “fine” then it must mean fine. After all, if it’s not fine, and one wants a deeper connection and to be understood, the very last thing one would do is to say exactly the opposite of what one feels when asked how they feel or how they are.
Because my reading between the lines tells me that saying find must mean what it says, or that she is unwilling or unable to be honest and bring it up.
I cannot force someone to be open and honest. If they want to be open and honest, then they have to decide they want to be open and honest. It’s not like there is some penalty being imposed by me if she were to be open and honest about how she feels.
All I can do is keep opening the door and asking. If she is unwilling or unable to be open and honest, I really don’t know what I can do.
I can’t hear what isn’t said. Which is why this is all so confusing. I’m told that women want to be heard, yet when asked, they don’t answer.
So which is it? Do they want to be heard or not? Saying fine when not fine doesn’t seem like a winning strategy when it comes to being heard.
I want to draw two distinctions: the hinting and the directness. These are different things with different motivations.
So, if someone asks “what do you want to do for dinner this weekend?” (a direct question), then you should absolutely give a direct answer. “I’d love steak, and I want to try Delmonico’s.” (I agree, the whole, “I dunno, what do you want?” thing can get tiring, unless you really don’t know or don’t care.)
But if I have been talking about a new steak place for awhile and my husband plans dinner somewhere else — or refuses it when I mention it again — that’s a problem. Just like the converse — if I say repeatedly that I hate sushi, it seems weird for my husband to plan date night at a sushi place.
The “hints” aren’t hinting for a specific time / location. (Or shouldn’t be.) The hints are basically information — this is what I like, this is what I’m interested in, this is what I want to try. So if the husband then needs to plan a night out or get a birthday gift (in theory) he has a backlog of information about his wife’s wants and interests that he could use as a starting point without having to be explicit.
Most of the time, when a guy says he’s confused and why won’t his wife just be direct when he asks — it’s because she’s been BEING direct and you missed it. That’s why you get a testy “fine.” Because (more than likely) she has just been telling you all the reasons she’s not fine — she had a bad day at work, the kids got in trouble at school, her favorite slacks were tight, whatever. And then your response is “how was your day?” and she gets upset because she’s been telling you and you weren’t listening. (I don’t mean “you” specifically, I mean “you” generally.) Or you cut her off because you didn’t care about the details — and the details were what mattered to her.
I think the problem here is that men are approaching this backwards and then get confused or frustrated that it wasn’t clear to them. Look at it like this — in journalism, there’s an inverted triangle. You give the lede first (“mayor indicted on fraud charges”) and then you build up the detail. However, with a lot of persuasive writing, you do the opposite — you start with little details that build on each other until you conclude your argument
with a powerful summary.
Women are trying to give all the little details that build up to something. You’re upset because she’s not just giving you the lede. That’s not her not being honest or open; that’s her communicating differently.
“Being heard” doesn’t mean “get to the point.” It means listening to all of the little details.
If you’re trying to communicate without the details, she’s not going to feel heard.
(BTW, I would give totally opposite advice to women who are trying to get their husbands to talk to them. I’m simply trying to explain what women are generally expecting when they say these things, like wanting to be heard or why it doesn’t feel like “hinting” to them.)
Ok I have several issues with this. First, if your husband wins so do you. Next, if the object isn’t what you really want, come out and say what you really want. Third, since when is doing the thing my wife wants “beating” her. Like you said, it’s not a competition and I never said it was. Some games are cooperative you know.
Finally, my illustration about the boss was to point out that being clear and direct is superior to being indirect when you are trying to establish expectations early in a relationship, and I think you know that. A boss that would fire an employee because he himself was communicating badly is a terrible boss.
Now, all that being said I do understand your point that women don’t want to have to come out and ask for things because they want to “be known” by their husband. I think husbands should strive for this and work at it long term, but I still think the expectations of women are usually far too high when it comes to thinking their man is just going to read their mind. If you are using what you want as some kind of test to see if your husband “knows” you, that comes off as manipulative. If you want something ask for it or else expect to receive nothing. This is what Jesus said and if it’s good enough for him it should be good enough for you.
I don’t know how else to make this clear — THE ITEM IS NOT THE THING THAT A WOMAN WANTS. THAT IS NOT THE POINT.
Can you please repeat that? A woman isn’t talking about a tennis bracelet and then secretly wanting, like, a blender and expecting you to read her mind about it to prove something. BECAUSE IT IS NOT ABOUT THE ITEM.
Women talk a lot. Like, just in general. We say a lot of words. We talk about all kinds of stuff — our work and our friends and how this one dress makes me feel fat but I like the color and also I’m thinking of setting out a new flower bed but I’m worried it’ll get too much sun and my grandmother loved red roses, so I think of my grandma when I see red roses… This is all general chatter. We talk in random little thoughts and, generally, our minds shoot off in a thousand directions.
With other women (close friends, family, whatever), we gather a lot of those little tidbits like squirrels. Then, when Jane mentions having a crappy day at work, her friend Sue will grab her a vanilla latte as a pick-me-up because Jane loves vanilla lattes — or will get her a chamomile tea because she remembers Jane doesn’t drink caffeine in the afternoon.
In this scenario, Jane wasn’t asking for a latte. In some ways, she may not have even wanted a latte. Sue knew that Jane had a rough day and was trying to find a way to make her feel better. And she remembered something random Jane had said and latched onto that. And then having Sue remember that she likes vanilla lattes is meaningful, and being remembered and thought of and cared about is more important than the latte itself.
THAT’S what I’m trying to say here. Saying “shut up with the talk and give me a list I can understand” completely misses the point. That’s not a cooperative game. It’s tapping out.
The problem with the boss analogy is the power dynamic and the task focus of it. Perform, or I’m disappointed. Be clear, or my output suffers. (For that matter, I would say terrible bosses with unclear expectations outweigh the good ones probably 4:1 in my experience.) I legitimately don’t care if my boss understands or cares about me as a person. It bothers me if my husband doesn’t feel like he has to even try to understand.
Sunny-dee, thanks for articulating your point so well. I understand what you’re saying. I’m just not sure that expecting your husband to act like your other girlfriends is realistic. It might be your desire, but I think it’s very difficult for men to think the way you want them to think without a whole lot of time and training. Most men just aren’t going to listen to all of the many words you say and actively store away all of those little things into memory, much less make the connection later to use that information to do something for you that makes you feel loved without being asked.
To be honest, most men probably aren’t listening to the vast majority of words women say, and we filter through most of it to hear what we consider “important information”. Now, that might seem cold and harsh, but I think it’s true. It doesn’t mean men don’t care about our wives, but we genuinely see most of the little things you say in a conversation as useless words and thus get ignored. That doesn’t mean a man can’t train himself to stop doing that, but I don’t think it comes naturally to the overwhelming majority. In fact, if a man ever talked the way most women do he would be regarded as an annoyance and a time waster.
Men use words generally to describe something in the most efficient method possible to convey the meaning, and words that aren’t being used on the topic at hand to directly contribute to the topic are wasteful and get in the way. That’s probably why all of what you said is so hard for men to do. So, I would say that if you want your man to know you, don’t rely on all of the little things you say in normal conversation to be the thing to convey any of that. Make an extra effort to teach him what you like and don’t like.
Actually, to clarify, I don’t do that with my husband — I grew up very close to my father and my brother and I work in a field that is 90% male (software engineering). I am not going to pretend I understand how men think, but I know enough (I think) to generally be much briefer and more direct with men than I am with women and to be a lot more thick skinned with the way they communicate with me. I also know that a lot of women don’t have that background and spend most of their time with other women and children and thus have absolutely no clue at all how men operate and get blindsided when something that seemed obvious or natural to them is completely misconstrued. Like when I was a little kid and a kid at school asked me if I had a pop and I thought they meant a lollipop when in Oklahoma, we call all carbonated beverages “Coke.”
That’s very interesting. Do you think your marriage and relationship with your husband (and men in general) is better because you are more direct in the way you communicate as compared with other women? Perhaps just as important, do you think your way of communication makes you less happy overall?
So, if women don’t naturally communicate in direct ways, we are expected to change and communicate more directly. That’s what I gather from your earlier comments as well as this one. But men don’t naturally listen to all the “chatter” and glean random things that could delight their wives, and that’s just how it is?
I think you’re selling men short because I know husbands who do this well because they’ve made the effort, just as their wives have made an effort to be more direct.
It just sounds like you expect women to change how they communicate, while men change little or nothing.
If you truly view much of what your wife says as a waste of your time to listen to and expect her to just communicate the way you do, then, yes, that’s cold, harsh, and very unloving. A good marriage requires both spouses to put the other’s needs first and try to meet their needs. Your version sounds really one-sided. Maybe that’s not what you intend, and maybe it’s not how you act with your wife, but it’s how your argument sounds to me.
Sarah, what you call unloving is just what I’m stating most men do. Our minds digs through what we subconsciously perceive as unimportant so that we can uncover the important information quickly. You can call it unloving but thatslike me saying that a woman including lots of extra information and hints and indirect communication while simultaneously expecting a man to pick up the subtle message is unloving. It’s not unloving it’s just the way things are.
Now, at this point I’ve explained my thoughts several times in several different ways, and despite the fact that I’m not calling for women to do anything different than both Paul and J say, I keep getting attacked. If you don’t want to set your husband up (as well as your marriage) for success and happiness then don’t. Keep on doing what you’ve been doing and cross your fingers. Maybe you won the lottery and you have a man who is great at reading your subtle messages. Odds are he isn’t.
@Brian, I tend to get along really well with men. I genuinely enjoy their company and I think they enjoy mine. Not in any kind of inappropriate way. I have a healthy respect and appreciation that men are different, and I think everyone enjoys being around someone who enjoys being around them.**
I don’t think it has helped my relationship with my husband one iota, which was kind of a shock when I got married. But I think there are other issues at play there. The biggest is probably that I don’t think my husband is in love with me and I don’t think he ever was. I think he married me for stability and has a strong sense of gratitude and familial affection, but there’s not the driving force to connect with me the way there is with someone you’re romantically connected to. I think that’s one aspect of our communication issues.
For example, real conversation:
Husband (looking at phone): How was your day?
Me: Kind of rough actually. (pause) My manager was just really upset because of …
Husband (sighing, still looking at phone): Uh, I’m trying to check my email here. (walks to another room)
Seriously, that’s almost verbatim how that conversation went down. Honestly, I can (and probably did) talk to my mom for, like, two hours about Crazy Boss, but I couldn’t get two full sentences out to my husband.
I would not try to have a two hour conversation with my husband about a crappy day at work, but sometimes I just wish I could say something personal and just get a response — “sounds rough,” “he sucks; you don’t deserve that,” “oh, I’m glad that presentation went well.”
I don’t try to talk about my day anymore, though. I limit it to one word answers — fine, busy, long, productive. Whatever. And I only say it if asked; I don’t bring it up any more.
** Because of the other issues, I’ve also largely cut off any friendships I have with men. It was mainly coworkers anyway (and most of them remote), but it’s best to make sure that there are internal boundaries.
@sunny-dee that’s got to be hard. It does sound to me like your husband isn’t trying at all to listen to you. I would be lying if I said that I love to listen to hours of my wife talking about her problems at work, but I try very hard to make her feel heard because I know it makes her feel loved. My natural preference would probably be for her to just say “fine” or “not bad” when I ask unless something truly unusual and interesting happened, but I know she needs to get it off her chest.
So, I would say that your case isn’t a good test case for the wife being direct. There has to be a motivation on the side of the husband to please his wife (which is what all of this is about) in order for any of this to work in the first place. I’m sorry that he doesn’t try very hard sunny-dee. Maybe at some point he will wake up. In light of that, I think your decision to not have relationships with other men is extremely wise.
@sunny-dee,
Or maybe he just shows/sees love in a different way.
Seems a bit presumptive to say he doesn’t love you. Since men speak in direct terms, has he said, “I don’t love you?”
Note, I’m not saying he manifests or even perceives love in the same fashion you do. I’m asking you if there is room for you to believe that you could each be showing and experiencing love in your own personal ways? Is there room for the idea that he could very well be madly in love with you, or at least was, in his own way?
Just as we cannot possibly understand how God loves us, is it possible that men don’t understand how women love and experience love and vice versa?
Seems that your judgment or discernment puts him in a deficit that may or may not be real. You’ve already decided he doesn’t love you, so he’s starting in the hole.
Your perception may not be his reality.
Note, I’m not saying you are crazy. I’m simply asking you to consider if there is another possibility. That his picture of love is completely different from yours.
What if both pictures are necessary and important to have a healthy marriage?
Just thinking out loud here. As always, I reserve the right to be wrong.
@uniballer, this is really O/T, so I’m sorry if it’s too much detail.
My husband has a lot of good qualities which I am not listing here and that’s (admittedly) unfair, but the question seems to be how did I stick him in this hole where I decided he doesn’t love me.
I want to clarify — I mean love me ROMANTICALLY. I think he has a great deal of affection and gratitude for me. I just don’t think it is romantic. I know that term is hard to define, but it comes down to a few things for me.
1. He has been extremely controlling and refusing over sex literally since our wedding night. We are officially in a sexless marriage, and I had the choice of doing IVF or remaining childless. It is that severe.
2. He won’t talk with me. It has gotten a little better; he’ll talk to me about his day or if there is something more important on his mind. But he won’t listen to me talk or do, like, little chit-chat with me
3. He won’t do things with me. I’ve tried to bring up shared hobbies or events we could go to. Nope, nothing. He won’t try a restaurant if I bring it up, he won’t watch a TV show I watch (and if it’s a show he has watched in the past, he’ll stop watching it entirely if I say I like it too). And that’s for things I’m trying that I have reason to believe he would like — if I bring up an activity I want to do because I enjoy it (like a concert for a band I like that he doesn’t know), that’s an even more aggressive no. I’ve even gone to events where he picked out the event and tickets as a surprise to me — I didn’t ask, didn’t even know about it, and it was 100% his idea — and he spent the entire night complaining.
4. He criticizes me, sometimes in areas where I have specifically told him I’m vulnerable or sensitive.
5. He hid an alcohol addiction from me and either hid or straight-up lied about his sexual past, including frequent porn use. And, eventually, he made out with a coworker, when I was 3.5 months pregnant (after IVF and him not touching me for over 6 months).
I have honestly tried to find a way to frame any definition of romantic love that doesn’t involve physical attraction, spending time with each other, enjoying each other’s company, and trying to please the other person, and I honestly just can’t. I cannot square that circle with “but, seriously, I love you and only you.”
What took longer for me to realize is that he does actually love me. He’s just not in love with me or motivated in love, if that makes sense. People in love pursue their partner, in some sense. Women try to seduce, men try to please, whatever. He doesn’t pursue me in any way. If it weren’t for the IVF / baby thing and the few times we’ve actually had sex, I would put this squarely in the “sister” category. I think he loves me, respects my opinion, appreciates the stability and loyalty I offer, and likes our life together. Like I was his sister and his roommate.
@sunny-dee,
That does sound difficult. I’m sorry you find yourself in the circumstance described.
@Brian says – “Men: don’t play the game because you can’t win it. If you can’t win the game, change the rules. By having women be direct (as hard as that might be) men can understand how to make thier wives happy and everyone wins.”
As a guy, this kind of bothers me a little. I think that’s selling our gender horribly short. Maybe achieving victory will be hard and take a lot of work that we aren’t used to putting in, but I think it’s totally possible. I don’t for one second believe that any guy can not learn to read some of the subtitles of a wife.
Now he might not “get her” in communication the way her best girl-friend does. But I doubt many wives have that high an expectation. And certainly I don’t get that from any of the comments from ladies in these recent conversations. And as J and Paul (and others) have pointed out many times, if that is the expectation, the wife probably should lower her expectations a little, so everyone can meet in the middle.
@drew-averagehusband – Making it her fault and expecting her to change makes it easy for men. But it’s not exactly a fair or sane way to go.
Fault and fairness have nothing to do with anything. Does it matter who’s fault it is that women need far more stimulation than men to orgasm? Is it fair? The answer is that it doesn’t matter. If you’re a man it’s your responsibility to please your wife sexually no matter how hard it might be.
I see it the same way with communication. Who cares who’s fault it is. Who cares if it’s fair? Do you want to be happy and have a loving fulfilling marriage or don’t you? A man can expect his wife to orgasm and respond sexually and blame her if she doesn’t, or he can change the way he’s making love. The same goes for communication.
I do agree that fault-finding and fairness are not what is most important. But I think what is important is each partner in a marriage doing everything they can to make every situation better. In communication, I think that means a wife should do what she can to be more direct. In communication, I think that means a man needs to do what he can to read-between-the-lines to show interest and build relationship in her eyes.
I agree with this as well.
Brian, I think you missed a really important point. You keep insisting it’s a game women are playing and that men are destined to lose. You don’t even acknowledge it as a different communication style.
The point of a lot of this in women is that we establish RELATIONSHIPS. We draw CONNECTIONS BETWEEN IDEAS AND PEOPLE. I put this in all caps for you. If I talk about how much I really want to try a new restaurant or how I feel really puffy and weird or how I really love XYZ movies, my mom (or sister or friend or neighbor or female coworker) all get that I would like to go to that restaurant or that if I like Movie A I may like Movie B because of the screenwriter or that I’m feeling bad about myself and could use a compliment. We take that information and store it away about each other. We assume that if there is a pattern of ignoring those comments, that another woman is slighting us or that we don’t have a good relationship with them.
If you say, “screw all that talk, just tell me what to get you for your birthday so I don’t have to guess,” then what we’re hearing is “I couldn’t care less about this relationship crap, I just need to check this box so you shut up. So make it easy for me.”
So your approach of telling a woman early on to just cut out the chit-chat and tell you what you need to know and nothing else will definitely and successfully set a tone for the relationship, but unless that tone is “shut up and also I don’t care that much about you,” then you should find a different approach.
Well said, sunny-dee! Now, I do think that wives need to understand that his desire for her to be direct shows he actually does care — we’re often reading that wrong — but you absolutely nailed the feelings and reasoning behind these indirect actions. Thanks for that!
We just both have to be willing to give a bit on what we think the other person is thinking and deal with who they really are.
Or you could take it like, I really don’t know what to do, so I need some guidance, some hints, some examples.
Sometimes it’s exasperating.
I put out several suggestions for my wife’s 50th birthday. Nothing really seemed to resonate. I said I could use some help. Nothing.
About a week before the big day, I finally put something together, and was accused of just throwing something together at the last minute and that I should have asked for help.
How does that not seem like some sort of contradictory game?
I’m not trying to win, I just want to stop losing.
Please consider that we might be asking for help because we are way out of our league and we’ve come to the person we believe to be the expert. When that person takes the approach that he should be able to figure this out, and then critiques us for both not figuring it out and allegedly not asking for help, that maybe we are not the only one contributing to the problem.
I think there are a few instances, such as this, where it does feel like a game – not in the sense that it’s a competition – but more like the old carnival shell game where the objective is always moving and keeping the guy one step behind. I think everyone here would likely agree that is problematic, just like everyone would probably agree that a guy who is not willing to try is problematic.
In cases like this, it feels like the situation is punitive and the partner constantly guessing and striking out us being set-up to fail as retribution for something. I think that is why some guys are so confused – and is a whole different level of problem that probably needs some outside help to unravel.
Just as a way to help out, I really feel like explaining this more to your wife could clear a little of the misunderstanding. Like instead of simply saying, “I need you to give me some ideas of what to get you for your birthday,” tell her that you really want to be able to come up with something fabulous to show how much you love her, but if she’s been giving you hints, you just haven’t been able to decipher them (you can cite some of the studies here if you want), and since you know it’s important to her that she feel understood, you’d like more direction. I know that still won’t work with some women who haven’t yet been convinced that you really don’t see what she thinks should be obvious, but going a bit extra and telling her that you do feel connected and want to know her more could get at her desire while giving you the actual information you need.
As I said, and then someone articulated much better. It’s a shell game.
She says she wants me to get her, but then when I ask, I get no answers. And then, if she doesn’t see the “right” amount of effort, she says I should have asked.
And around and around we go.
For her 40th, I planned it. I was on-call that weekend, but had already worked out a switch. But to keep it a surprise, I had her best friend take her shopping and told her we would do something the following weekend.
I had about two dozen of her friends and family at a restaurant, all lined up. Well, a few days before, she hits me with the crying and the “you aren’t even taking this seriously….” all the while I had it worked out.
Finally, I just said go where you friend tells you to go and do what she suggests.
But it kinda soured me on planning events for her. Because I knew I had done the work, and yet I was still in trouble.
That lesson wasn’t lost on me 10 years later for her 50th. But it’s like why bother? I’m going to be in trouble somehow. Something won’t be right. I won’t pick the right parking spot, or there will be a smudge on a glass.
Maybe we just grow weary of trying to listen and understand and still be wrong. It’s like why put in the effort if I’m in trouble if do the work or if I don’t do the work. Same result, so why put in the effort?
So ladies, if you want him to try, there has to be positive feedback. If it’s mostly negative, eventually logic will win out. If he perceives he loses if he tries just as much as he loses if he doesn’t try, eventually he’ll no longer try.
Don’t expect him to kiss the lips that spent the last 30 minutes chewing his butt for some perceived wrong.
Thanks for including J’s voice here, Paul.
It’s important to be aware that this isn’t simply a matter of flipping a switch. When we’ve learned that being direct and blunt is unfeminine, ungodly, and pushy, speaking in this way to our husbands can feel wrong.
It takes time, practice, and intention for a woman to learn to communicate in a way that will be helpful for her husband, just as it takes time, practice, and intention for a man to work on communicating in a way that will be meaningful to his wife.
THIS!! Growing up in an extremely patriarchal subculture, women are HIGHLY discouraged from being direct, because that is seen as telling our husband what to do and is therefore unsubmissive. I’ve also been warned so many times about not being a nag that after a while it felt like I wasn’t allowed to ask him to do anything at all. I was literally taught, and I quote, “Influence, don’t ask.”
If your wife grew up in or you attend a conservative church, please realize your wife may have been TAUGHT AGAINST being direct. If you would like your wife to be direct, you are probably going to have to ask and ask again, because chances are she’s been told her entire life that meant DON’T want direct women. Let her know that is not true for you. That’s the only way I learned to be direct, was because my husband asked me to be. It’s SO nice! 😊
@Kay – What you say is very true. And even if the woman has figured out it’s wrong, it’s what she learned first and it’s difficult to change.
That’s interesting, Kay: I’ve also heard that bit about influencing. “You have a lot of influence with your husband,” which comes across as nudge-nudge, but don’t make direct requests.
@J. Parker – My mom’s generation was really bad about this. If you wanted a man to do something you got his wife to get him to do it. All too often that was all about manipulation.
This is one area that men should practice empathy, but the onus is on women to make the actual change.
Yes, men should try to be receptive to what their wives think they are communicating, but the truth is that they often don’t have a clue. I am not one who climbs on the “it’s playing games” bandwagon, but at the same time, I realize that I don’t know what I don’t know, and despite clear requests for communication, I am often left in the dark, without a clear path forward. Nothing is quite as frustrating as knowing something is upsetting your wife, and making an honest effort, asking what is bothering her, and being dismissed by an angry “NOTHING IS WRONG”. Sometimes I am sure it is my fault, and sometimes I am left without a clue. It is easy to reach out and try to make amends in the first case, but in the second, I am left wondering if I have done something. In cases like that, I have little choice but to weather the storm. A bit of direct communication could shorten the storm and reduce it’s intensity.
Man without a map, I think you can help the process to calmly and patiently explaining that you really cannot read her and need more help. I’m glad to hear you don’t say it’s a game (because as you see from other comments, it may not be to her), but she may need your continued requests to feel like it’s safe enough to speak up and tell you what’s going on. Many blessings!
Absolutely true, Chris! It does take time. I hear this also about sex (I know you do too) — many wives feel so awkward speaking up for what they want because it feels so outside who they’ve been taught to be. Thanks for your great comment!
Thanks, J and Paul, this is helpful information.
Reading this, it struck me that in most marriages the wife is “higher drive” in communication and relationship building. Men may have a tendency to be “lower drive gatekeepers” in these areas.
To extend the analogy, a wife may find it most productive to find what “turns her husband on” to communication and makes it good for him too. This might involve avoiding things that turn him off or make him feel used or hurt. But she may also need to be direct and assertive about what she needs from conversation (maybe share J’s post and ask him what he thinks about the subject).
For husbands, we should recognize that this is an important area to be generous, as it’s one of the primary ways we can make our wives feel loved. This includes being intentional to get to know our wives hearts and sharing our own, even when we don’t experience a spontaneous desire to do so. We should ensure we are engaging in relational conversation on a regular basis, both as an enthusiastic participant and sometimes initiating.
For both spouses, recognizing and expressing gratefulness for efforts your spouse makes to communicate in your style could help build healthy communication in the marriage.
Quick clarification – Sharing J’s post is not being direct and assertive. But it could be a good way for a wife to start the conversation and approach the subject before directly sharing what she needs from communication.
I love how you said this is an opportunity for husbands to be generous! Honestly, anytime we don’t see eye-to-eye (because of gender, personality, background, etc.), it’s an opportunity for both spouses to show generosity and to stretch themselves to grow. For example, he could study her more, she could speak up more clearly.
Great post, J, and thanks, Paul, for giving us the benefit of her wisdom.
One thing that I ‘think’ I’ve noticed is that women tend to use the process of speaking as part of working-though an issue. It’s almost like an attempt to achieve a kind of internal consensus through an exploration of nuance.
I could be totally wrong, and my noticing this may just be a complete misinterpretation of what’s happening. Just thought it worth a mention.
That’s accurate with what I’ve experienced and witnessed, Andrew. I’ve heard it described as men only printing out the document when everything’s finished, where we print draft after draft trying to get it just right. Perpetual print! Lol. This doesn’t make sense to men sometimes, but it does make to sense to us. And if we can give each other grace, we can support one another while aiming for unity.
My wife doesn’t really communicate this way, but my mother plays these games. And like Brian alluded to, I just don’t play them with her anymore. She’s either clear with what she wants or needs, or I avoid dealing with her…..I don’t do emotional terrorism anymore now that she doesn’t have any power over me. At some point about ten years ago I just stopped talking to her for six months over a fit she threw about expecting something she didn’t communicate. I flat refused to date women who had any inkling of acting like this, I grew up with it and never again did I want to be subject to it. Unfortunately, my daughter is very much like this. I didn’t even recognize it until my wife, who is far more perceptive, started pointing out the games my daughter was playing. Neither of us allow it, and if she plays games about saying she wants something but really wants another…..she gets what she asked for. If you want something, you need to be clear about it. Men do this to some degree too, they will say they are unhappy with their sex life, the wife thinks he just wants more, when in reality he wants oral regularly, but it’s kind of embarrassing so he doesn’t tell her…..and nothing changes until he tells her exactly what he wants.
I see this as speaking two different languages. He speaks English, she speaks French.
The problem, as I see it is that she can speak and understand English. He barely understands and can’t speak French.
So which makes more sense? Her to expect him to understand and speak French, or her to speak a language she already knows.
It’s not like she doesn’t understand the direct speech. She does. She simply prefers French (indirect speech, hinting, etc.)
She’s free to speak it if she wants. However, I think she’s doing a great disservice as she knows and can speak the direct language with far less effort than he will need to learn and understand her language.
Except we’re still dealing with men and women here, and her higher need is to see that he’s still willing to make the effort to learn her language because it’s participating in who she is. Don’t think in terms of “what she really means is,” think more like layers of need. We perform hard at work to get a raise because we always need more money. That’s the surface level need, but below that need we need to provide for our families, need to feel we’re being paid what we’re worth, don’t want to have to switch jobs, etc. Those needs are there as well.
You seem to be assuming the “What she really means…”
I’m still at the “What does she mean?” phase of things.
If I assume, I literally get called out for assuming. But if she assumes, and I call her out, asking for a consistent standard that we both will meet, crickets. Not a “I can see how you feel I’m not holding myself to the same standard I hold you….”
Is it too much to ask that things be clear and consistent?
I can’t learn if I don’t understand in the first place. If understanding in the goal, then you have to start from the common and work to the unknown. If you start at the unknown, will learning really happen?
That knowledge is built on existing knowledge. If there is no common foundation used, the higher learning will never occur.
Uniballer1965, how did you manage to communicate while dating? I’m really not making any accusatory statements here. I’m honestly curious.
And of course, each women does have her own specific personality, so it’s hard to say exactly what to do in your situation. But I really think a conversation where you explain why it’s so difficult for you to understand and then asking her why it’s hard for her to say things directly might help. Maybe just trying to get in each other’s shoes a bit will break some ice?
How did we communicate before? I really don’t recall. I presume we did. I heard her when she said we need to decide where the relationship was going. Marry or go our own ways as her children were entering high school and she wasn’t going to move once they started school.
Pretty direct, so I understood.
I guess I just want consistency. Just last week, she assumed something about my bringing up Kate Spade’s suicide. Not an hour later, I assumed something about her comment waiting at a restaurant, and she about took my head off. So I asked, why was she giving herself a pass for assuming what I meant, but then taking my head off for assuming what I meant.
Of course, no answer.
Well, at least this week is peaceful. She is in Europe with her mom, I’m at home with her adult son. Not much communication or misunderstanding this week. And the same amount of sex as when she’s here, none.
Yes, I’m cranky.
I want to chime in. Family/regional differences can come into play here too, as well as gender differences.
I know men don’t get hints very well. I tried very hard to be very plain with my ex about what I wanted or needed, or just in general conversation. Oh, there WERE times I hinted at what I wanted for Valentines Day and ended up having to tell him point-blank what to get me and what brand I wanted. But the interesting thing is I could say a sentence that was perfectly plain and he would look at me with a blank look on his face having no idea what I was talking about. And I promise, I was not hinting or being mysterious. So when some of you men say that we should just say what we mean and be direct, maybe we ARE, but we just don’t speak the same “language.”
Another point I’d like to make is this. We all tend to have hobbies, right? I used to follow basketball. I remember reading an article as a kid about some ball players’ shoe sizes and actually memorizing them. And of course I knew the jersey numbers of all my favorite players. If we can devote that kind of attention studying our hobbies, why can’t we devote that level of attention studying our spouse? My ex-husband refused to give me any gift ideas because he thinks birthdays and holidays are stupid. So I studied him. I bought him things that he had been drawn to in stores we had been to. I made his favorite cookies. I KNOW we need to be direct with you men, although we still may not be speaking the same language. But honestly, if you love your wife, why can’t you do the same thing I tried to do for my ex? What catalog might she have opened with something circled on a page? What did she oooo and ahhh over in a store recently? If you married her, study her! Know her!
Yeah, it does feel weird to us gals when a guy can do something like tell you all the details of a line of cars or a team of athletes, but he can’t remember her daily drink order at Starbucks. We’re like, “Really? Do you pay no attention to me?” My husband literally said to me today, “Do you want any onions?” Where did that come from?! I have never liked onions. Not ever. Not in 25 years of marriage has he ever seen me willingly eat an onion. Thankfully, he does notice a whole lot of other stuff so he has lots of points in my love bank, plus I know that those moments of either getting it completely or not getting it at all are just outliers.
I do think you hit on something important, in that we at least want a guy to TRY. Almost every wife I’ve ever talked with said their husband made quite an effort while wooing them, so maybe we’re just wanting to see that continue? I think it’s reasonable to ask for effort. What’s unreasonable is to expect ongoing success in figuring you out—rather, it makes sense to help a guy out and just tell him what you do and don’t like. (Maybe my husband will remember the onion thing next time. ;) )
@J. Parker – I can see how it would be easy to see such things as “You don’t care about me”. I’d suggest part of it is that our brains are wired for different things. Men’s minds find it easy to process mechanical things or warlike things (sports), while women are more geared to process relational things. Some of this is brain structure, some is cultural focus, some is preference, but it’s all very real.
My mind tends to be more “female” than most men, while Lori’s is more “male” than most women. even with that I know she is aware of far more of my preferences than I am of her’s. Sometimes I’m like “Yeah, I knew that, but I forgot.”
Yep, I agree with that!
Or you remember her order, and come home with it, only to hear, oh, I was feeling more like a latte today, you should have called me first….
Like someone said above, shell game. You try to remember. Heck, I even have a rather large text note stored with her contact information in my phone, so I don’t have to remember.
But if the pea keeps moving to a different cup, any notes I made yesterday are just as likely to be worthless tomorrow.
Cultural factors do affect quite a bit also. I’m half West Virginian and half Costa Rican. My ex boyfriend was Costa Rican. My communication style has always been direct (though growing up as a woman in the South has kind of forced me to be a little more “subtle”). Costa Ricans, culturally, generally aren’t as direct as Americans. Many times I accidentally offended my ex with my bluntnessss. I often surprised him with this too because I think he did “expect games” out of me precisely because I am a woman ( to be fair, he had no sisters and really didn’t interact much with females). This whole article and conversations has been fascinating, and hits the nail on the head on how the genders GENERALLY tend to communicate. How much of it is nature/ nurture,though, would be interesting to know.
Oh, definitely true. Our communication styles are influenced by gender, culture, family background, personality, and more. One of the most interesting linguistic findings is how different cultures view interrupting. In my family, interrupting was okay; in my hubby’s, it was rude. We had to work a bit on seeing each other’s viewpoint on that one.
Thank you for writing this, Jay. The straightforward and clear and this is very helpful for me in trying to see things from my husband‘s perspective. Hopefully I can get more practice of looking outside my normal to see where he’s coming from, avoid playing games or even the appearance of a game, and really try to value the information swapping, the task completing, and not resents how God made him different than myself in those ways.
Thanks, Cassandra! I hope you and your husband can both learn and appreciate one another’s instincts and negotiate a positive way to communicate. Blessings!
I can deffinatly agree with that . My mother was a laywer and so had learned direct speak so passed the style on to me, also the ability to defend my opinions respectfully.
My husband on the other hand comes from a family that hints, alot and keeps oppinions to them selves. For example last weekend his sister came to look after my kids for the weekend so my husband and I could have a night away. She came from staying with her parents and when she arived she was holding a Chicken explaining that her mother had handed it to her when they were leaving. We were both confues as we had talked about what she was feeding the kids the week befor and I had bought food enough to feed the 6 kids and her for the weekend. The mysetery was sloved Sunday late morning when my husband got a text from his sister asking wher the roasting pan was. My husbands parents had turned up expecting my sister in-law to cook a roast dinner.