I’m told when someone is being trained to detect counterfeit money, they don’t study counterfeit bills. They study real currency. When they know what the real ones look like in minute detail, it’s easy to spot a counterfeit.
I’ve seen a lot of folks get off track by spending way too much time looking at the counterfeit in marriages. Rather than looking at and promoting strong, healthy marriages, they get hung up by various abuses, including those that are supported by twisting scripture to say things it doesn’t. Becoming too focused on the counterfeits results in bad theology and wrong teaching.
Along these lines, someone used the comments a while back to make me aware that another blogger (who shall remain nameless) had written posts attacking Dr. Emerson Eggerichs for things he has never said. The basis for these attacks seems to have been women who were hurt by men who were following a counterfeit version of what Eggerichs has said about 1 Cor 7.
Dr. Emerson has replied to these attacks with a couple of great posts that do a wonderful job of covering 1 Cor 7. He had the class to not mention the other blog while defending himself. I’ve linked to his posts below, they are well worth a read.
This whole thing shows how easily we can get sidetracked. We see some folks who were hurt because their spouse listened to and misapplied what some teacher said, and we attack the teacher. That’s like attacking the Bible because people twist it to justify the wrong they always intended to do. It’s not a valid attack and it doesn’t help anyone. It might make the one doing the attack more popular with those who were hurt, but it’s not helping those who were hurt.
As someone who has blogged about marriage and sex for nearly eighteen years, this topic hits very close to home. I’ve had my words twisted in the comments many times, and I have no doubt some spouses have misstated what I have written to try to manipulate their spouse. I suspect there are some folks out there who think I’m horrible, even though they’ve never actually read a word I wrote.
Dr. Eggerichs put it wonderfully, saying “Every pastor-teacher must make this commitment as an ambassador of Christ: ‘I will not fear preaching the truth for fear of those who will twist the truth.”’ It’s a given some of what I and my fellow bloggers say will be twisted and used for harm. They did it to Jesus and Paul, why should I expect any better? I hate that, but I won’t allow it to silence me.
How Have You and Your Spouse Achieved Win-Win in Your Sexual Intimacy? (Part 1)
Where Does the Wrong Lie—In the Scripture, the Teacher, or the Abuser? (Part II)
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Hi Paul – you leave quite the compelling argument reagrding the Love and Respect peice. I suppose misinterpretation is everywhere particulry the bible. Here is the thing. E wrote “This book is about how a wife can fulfill her need to be loved by giving her husband what he needs – respect.” That is what he wrote. There is nothing unclear about it. The book is supposed to be a marrige book for couples yet his opening statement is about how the book is about how a woman is responsible for the marriage by fullfilling her need by respecting her husband. I cant comment on what is counterfit versions of teachings of his book and what is not. But what is clear to me is that he left the door wide open. For some reason I am not a fan of having these discussions about others works on a blog. This is just a tough place to have the discussion. By going there, It does seem though Paul that you too may have focused on the counterfit today as well.
@Phil – The book is love and respect. She is to love, he is to respect. Both are addressed. I’m not seeing your quote on either of the pages I pointed to, so I don’t have it in context. I suspect it’s from the book, and I would think the other side is also covered.
The reason I wrote this is that there was a good bit of discussion about this in the comments a while ago.
Paul for you reference my reference is in the introduction in the first paragraph. Thanks
I’ve never heard of Dr Emerson, and not read a word of his until now. I just read the 2 blog posts you referenced and I gotta say, I don’t care much for his teaching.
He says marriage should be about mutuality, equal responsibility and agreement as per Corinthians 7. I heartily agree. He then goes on to say if the marriage isn’t right, it’s the husbands fault.
If the husband isn’t getting enough sex, it’s his fault. He needs to spend his life working hard from breakfast to dinner to try and get his wife interested in him, while being ever so careful not to be sexual in any way. I’ve heard this advice so many times over the years.. might work for some, never worked for me or a lot of guys according to many forums. (He doesn’t mention this ONLY works for some women, not all.)
OTOH, if the wife isn’t getting enough sex, it’s also the husbands fault… husband needs to buy the book and read about the C.O.U.P.L.E principal Dr Emerson has developed.
I know this post isn’t about slamming another sex blogger… it’s the exact opposite. But there it is.
Alex.
@Alex He says “The same applies to the wife. She is to respect her husband’s inner heart, based on Ephesians 5:33, which means loving him so much that she too recognizes their mutual sexual needs, equal sexual responsibilities, and equal say in order to find mutual sexual agreement.”
There is no out for the wife there. He then goes on to talk about a husband who is refusing his wife sex.
I find it interesting that many folks have a strong reaction to Eggerichs, with some men saying he is horribly unfair to men, and some women saying he is horribly unfair to women. I think he expects us all to do what the Bible says, and that’s going to feel unfair to us in our selfishness.
It is interesting that he manages to get both Men and Women riled up with his message. The first post of his I read (above) was non-stop husband bashing to my mind… I guess his book goes the other way according to the women here who don’t like him :)
Alex.
I actually started reading Love and Respect with my husband in our own about 6 years ago. His book completely turned me off to anything either he has read or said. It didn’t take another blog to make me realize he was wrong. He makes it sound like the only way to get love from your husband is to completely submit to him even if it’s sinning. I also felt like then i should have no voice.
Ive really only looked at his blog after that other blog called him out. Honestly, his message in just the book was so off putting that i couldn’t read anything else by him without having a serious guard up.
And btw, my husband saw the damage it did to our marriage and me specifically, and asked that i not read it anymore.
The bill is either counterfeit or it isn’t. There are no gray areas. There are a variety of opinions about the book giving the impression that not all see his book as a “truth” or not a counterfeit. I think what the particular blog you reference does is illustrate there are many women and some men who don’t care for the overall message/tone of the book.
I think we all read such a book through the lens of our own experiences. The anecdotes in his book honestly sounds like some of the situations that I grew up with. There are a few passages in the book where I felt like the he was really telling women to walk on eggshells, any perceived disrespect could cause the man to become angry.
Maybe in his mind Eggerichs thinks he is preaching a truth, but obviously the blog series shows that many don’t see it that way.
There is enough to argue about in the book that has nothing to do with scriptures. Honestly he doesn’t sound like a guy I would want to be married to, or have be the father to my kids. I’m really surprised he didn’t have a better editor to delete some of his anecdotal stories from his marriage.
Part of my job involves writing, and the expectation that what I am writing is as clear and concise as possible. If people misunderstand his message, maybe he bears some responsibility. Eggerichs has certainly had the opportunity to refine his message, but he has not. He has just expanded his message in nonbiblical ways talking about mother/son relationships and father/daughter relationship.
@Denise – What I saw as counterfeit was some of the claims made that he had said things he had not, and had not said things he had. That’s not about opinion, it’s about truth. If someone wants to argue what he said is wrong, that’s fine. Distorting his message is not.
I will say the book has not aged well, and I’d love to see a full rewrite. I’ve heard his more recent DVD series, and followed his blog some, so my picture of him is fuller and more recent than the book.
I agree the author has some responsibility for how his message is heard. I’ve done posts there were not heard as I wanted, and sometimes it’s very clear that is on me. On the other hand, studies have found a blog’s comments change how people view the blog post, and that’s not on the author. What others write about a book can also change how we see the book. We can change how others see a book or blog post, but we must be very careful that we don’t cross into slander along the way.
“I find it interesting that many folks have a strong reaction to Eggerichs, with some men saying he is horribly unfair to men, and some women saying he is horribly unfair to women. I think he expects us all to do what the Bible says, and that’s going to feel unfair to us in our selfishness.”
Paul, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. It’s unfortunate that so many are so closed to his message, which my wife and I feel is very much grounded in Biblical principle and common sense.
I work for the blogger described above and since you don’t give a link to her blog, I won’t here either. However, I do want to just say that we all worked really hard not to take the book out of context or to misapply or misconstrue it. If you’d like to send me an email with places where the book’s message was distorted, I would appreciate it and will work to revise the posts, if required.
I noticed in this post that you referenced a blog post on 1 Cor 7, and there is a little bit about Love and Respect in that post. However, I hope that you’ll give a look at the posts written solely about Love and Respect, which are easily searchable on google (it’ll be the first blog post that shows up if you search “Love and Respect Review”). Additionally, we put together an entire post dedicated to women sharing their stories about how the book affected them and their marriages. I hope that you will read their stories and revisit the book.
@Joanna – Since Eggerichs didn’t mention the blog, I felt it was not my place to do so. While he was clearly respondeing to one recent attack, the issue is far bigger than that. Eggerichs addressed a lot of what was said point by point, so that would be the place to look.
As for me, I posted on one of the posts about the book, and I was told in no uncertain terms I was wrong by someone who works for the blog. That was enough for me.
I would be interested to know if anyone bothered to contact him privately before attacking him publically. I think I read something about that in the Bible.
I agree, for a personal grievance, Matthew 18 applies. However, Paul clearly confronts Peter in public about his being taken in by the circumcision party (Galatians 2:14). A book written and published is perfectly fine to critique in the public square and such action is biblically justifiable. Additionally, I asked the proprietor of [redacted] and she did not get an email from you before you discussed her work here. I’ll grant that you didn’t use her name but it’s a pretty easy google and I’ve noticed frequent commenters on our blog posting here as well. I think you were totally fine in discussing this matter in public in this post, but I guess I’m wondering if you think that Matthew 18 applied to the posts on our blog, you don’t think it applied here as well? It just seems incongruous to me…
If we took something out of context or misconstrued it, then I’d really like to know what it was. I read Eggerich’s posts when they were originally published and they are full of straw men arguments and don’t address the critiques of the book in the posts. I’d invite you to revisit the posts on our blog, especially the one in which we shared women’s stories, and the posts on the Love and Respect blog.
I also agree that it’s terrible when a book is misconstrued or made to say things it didn’t say. My own reading of Love and Respect, as well as my careful review of the hundreds of comments, emails, and messages we received in response to the posts have convinced me that the use of Love and Respect to harm does not come from a misreading, misconstruing, or misrepresentation of the text. Instead, it comes from applying the principles therein in a situation where they shouldn’t be applied (abuse, neglect, etc.) However, because the book purports to be a tool for use in abusive and troubled marriages, it condemns itself. I do not doubt that Eggerich did not intend for his writing to be used as a tool for abusers – of course not! However, that doesn’t change the fact that it can be and is used by them very easily. The remedy now is not to for him post updates to his book in a blog, but, instead to recall the book and fix the parts of it that are used by spouses with ill intent.
The quote that surprised me most on my reading of Love and Respect was from p. 282-283, in which a woman shares her story, “Now whenever he senses anything that smacks of disrespect, even when it isn’t, it reminds him of the past and he gets infuriated, I haven’t seen such rage in awhile… Actually, I regret letting him know about what I had learned from you because he uses it against me each time… I can take on the criticism – I feel I deserve it – but his rage is withering and makes me want to run away and hide.” Eggerich expresses solidarity and his sympathy in response, but then goes on to describe why he finds using the word “victim” dangerous. He discusses in detail the rewards awaiting spouses who are loving/respectful to unloving/disrespectful spouses, without making caveats for abusive situations. He also says that stating that a spouse bears the blame for their actions is a bad idea “if you go the blame route, you wind up only a victim and you miss out on God’s rewards” (p. 286). Here, too, no caveats are given for spouses who are adulterous, negligent, or abusive.
Some women are victims. We shared many of their stories on the blog. I hope that you will listen to them.
@Joanna – I have no desire to go back and forth here. I will answer your post, and then I’m done. Feel free to reply if you want.
I can accept your Galatians 2:14 perspective. Not how I’d have gone, but it seems valid.
I attempted to discuss this in the comments on one of the posts about the book. I was told I was wrong because so many women have felt hurt by the book that it must be toxic. What about all the Jews who yelled “Crucify”? They, and or those who stirred them up, were hurt by many of the things Jesus said. Did that make Jesus wrong? Did it make Him toxic?
There are two issues here. One, which Eggerichs covered, is that some folks twist what it said. The Bible has been twisted to justify slavery and witch burnings. Humans have a massive capacity to twist things. The other issue is sometimes the truth hurts. I’ve had both men and women complain about Love and Respect, and some of that is clearly because they don’t like the truth being spoken.
You talk about the hundreds of emails from women who were hurt by Love and Respect. For years I’ve had men telling me the blog we are not naming is dangerous. It’s unbiblical, it’s man-hating, and it hurts marriages. I’ve long defended the author because most of what was claimed was an exaggeration or twisting of what she wrote. More recently I find it difficult to defend her because I’m seeing what men are saying. I’ve been told it was always there and I choose to ignore it. I think there has been a significant change in content and direction the last year or more.
As for victims, I 100% agree it’s a dangerous mentality. Our identity is to be in Christ, not the sin committed against us. The problem with the whole victim culture is Christ is not at its centre! I know a bit about this because my wife was both molested and raped. She has never seen herself as a victim. Instead, she allowed Jesus to help her heal. She overcame, as the Bible promises we can do in Him. I’ve dealt with plenty of women who see themselves as victims, and most of them never get real healing. Being a victim is their identity. It is supposed to give them special privileges, and it’s their justification for not walking in victory as we are told to do.
I’ve heard plenty of victim’s stories. I’ve also heard overcomers stories. One of those is good for the person, and for their marriage and children. The other is not.
I’m just going to weigh in with this one thing, Paul.
Are you honestly comparing the women who have been hurt by the book because their husbands have used it to justify abuse with the Jews who yelled “Crucify Him?”
Paul, you call yourself “The Generous Husband.” In what way are you being generous right now with women who are being hurt by their husbands, and having their husbands justify that using Scripture?
@Sheila Wray Gregoire – I am making the point that a whole lot of people making a claim about someone doesn’t make it true. I used a really obvious example to make the point. The majority of the Jews thought Jesus should die for his teaching.
And I would say those husbands MISused the book to justify abuse.
Long before Love and Respect was written, the Bible was used (misused) by men to abuse women. Does that make the Bible toxic? Of course not!
The real issue here is that neither the Bible nor Love and Respect are the problem. Making them the problem means we are not dealing with the real problem, and that’s not helping abused women.
You ask about “women who are being hurt by their husbands, and having their husbands justify that using Scripture?” Do you think telling them the Bible is wrong would help them? The Scriptures are not the problem, her husband (and men who look the other way) are the problem. I choose to attack the problem, not a red herring.
Yes abusive men hide behind the Bible, and books, and blogs. But the things they hide behind are not the problem, and when we make them the problem we just give those men more cover.
“ Are you honestly comparing the women who have been hurt by the book because their husbands have used it to justify abuse with the Jews who yelled “Crucify Him?””
More misrepresenting what someone said, with just enough plausible deniability baked in. Gregoire has it down to a science.
“Some women are victims. We shared many of their stories on the blog. I hope that you will listen to them.”
My personal opinion is that this is at the heart of all the fuss. When a woman is hurt we all rush to comfort her and right the wrong. In principle, this is a good thing. However, we need to know the truth of the situation before we can respond rightly and affect helpful change.
The question then becomes is Eggerich’s teaching harming them or is it the misuse of his teaching?
I have actually read his book, I follow his blog, and I’ve watched a DVD series of his. While I think it’s a bit stereotypical, I didn’t find anything unbiblical. His standard message is that men and women are different, not right and wrong, just different. He’s trying to help couples understand that and give each other what they need to feel loved and understood. He is Christ-centered and he teaches from the Word.
An additional thought…
If I write a post and a hundred people read it and just one percent of my readers misuse or misunderstand it, one person can be harmed. (simplistic terms, made up numbers to explain a point)
If I write a post and a million and a half people read it and one percent of my readers misuse or misunderstand it, 150,000 can be harmed. That sounds like a lot of people, but please understand, it’s the same one percent (that you can’t control and that doesn’t negate the other 1, 350,000 that are not hurt (some even greatly benefitted by it – Love and Respect has 4 1/2 stars on Amazon)).
I get the kneejerk reaction to a large group of women in pain. You want to stop it. I want to stop it. The problem, however, is far more systemic than the marriage teachings of one man. You have sinful people using whatever is at hand to harm others and get their way.
Eggerich can’t control the misuse of his writing (nor can you “recall” a book, you can only write an updated version – Can we just put this strawman to bed? It’s an attempt to make him look bad because he won’t fix a wrong he didn’t commit by doing something he can’t do.) He does what he can to make his position and beliefs clear.
All this to say, I am concerned about this particular blogger. I have always appreciated her work and promoted it. Lately, however, she has championed women victims by attacking another ministry and I believe misrepresenting it. Slander poisons a ministry and gathers people who invite more bashing, and (here’s the serious kicker) it in no way fixes the problem.
Paul – I got into it pretty heavy directly with the blogger on this very topic you mention. That is taking the issue to the person in private first before going public. I even quoted the versus. Here is what I found out: Women have been fighting the wrong messages that do great harm to them in our world for ions. They have tried the approach you mention. We are well beyond that biblical direction that was given. At this point in time in our world we must call out the harmful nature of wrong messges that hurt women immeadiatly. That is what was done by the blogger and after I realized my argument was mute and with the help of some really great women on that blog I changed my mind and I now stand firm with my fellow women freinds. It is my understanding that E was contacted and has doubled down on his message. Paul, I respect you and this is the first time I disagree with you on your blog. Maybe I cant change that. I do hope you will revisit your thouhgts and see that so many women have been harmed by the thinking that comes from that book. The bottom line is ther is story after story of the harm it has done to women and it is clearly an issue for many women. We as men have the responsibility to help our fellow woman stomp out harmful messages that not only effect them but men too and the institution of msrriage as a whole. I beleive that is why you write…..
@Phil – I’m all for calling out wrong messages. My problem is with putting those messages on people who didn’t say them. The fact that something can be twisted to be bad means nothing – it’s been done to the Bible for centuries.
Basically, she said “You believe such and such” and he said, “No I don’t” and she said, “Yes, you do.” Given he can point to things he has said that prove his side, I have a problem with continuing to attack him. If you want to talk about the wrong teaching, go for it. If you want to talk about how some have twisted what he said, great. But trying to put words in his mouth I have a problem with.
I certainly understand how women have been abused throughout history. I’ve spoken against that and I’ve pointed to others who do the same.
What is missing in all of this is the couples who say their marriage was saved by or is so much better because of the Book Love and Respect. If you check the reviews on Amazon, there is a great deal of that. When we look at the whole, rather than a segment of the population, we see far more praise for the book than condemnation.
Is the book perfect? No. Are there things I don’t agree with in the book? Sure. Do I think it’s fair to call it toxic? Not at all.
BTW, no foul on disagreeing with me. I want a following that thinks and speaks up when they think I missed it. I’m far from perfect, and I always want to be checked.
But Paul you haven’t answered Joanna’s request to state exactly what it is they are saying Eggerich said that you say he didn’t say. Could it be that they are not actually misquoting him? I’ve read this dreadful book and many of the posts Sheila has written about it, and I can find nothing to support what you say.
@Fiona – I pointed to a post by Eggerich which did that. Why should I speak for him?
@phil – “We are well beyond that biblical direction that was given.”
Maybe it’s splitting hairs, but I don’t believe we can ever arrive at a place where we are beyond doing what the Bible teaches. We should always evaluate our interpretation and application to see if we are wrong in those areas, but should never be comfortable laying any piece of the Bible aside when it doesn’t fit an outcome we want to see.
I do agree however that we have to call out anything that harms anyone, but we have to do the work of honestly assessing situations to do the hard work, not just the easy work. The problem in this case doesn’t seem to be completely with the message, but the sinful and disingenuous way in which the message is being used.
Anyone who writes/speaks/publishes the shear volume of material that Dr. E has is going to include things that can easily be misconstrued. They should always seek to perfect their craft and limit those instances. But in our culture, there is all-too-quickly a tipping point of piling on that can undo a lifetime of good work with a few statements taken out of context and used to do harm.
That would be beyond the direction of adressing this issue in private as it has already been done thousands of times through out history. Therefore like Jesus knocking over tables is where we stand on the subject. My abuser lives just outside Chicago. He lives free after what he did to me. Delivering the wrong message to me and others. He is no different than E in This case as if I harmed someone I would want to know what I did wrong and how I can correct it rather than doubling down in denial.
@Phil – The first thing anyone who has been abused needs to know is that abusers lie. They lie to the person they abused, to others, and to themselves. Noting they give as justification for their sins means anything, and engaging with them on any of those lies is a waste of time.
As I see it, the biggest problem is that our culture is willing to look the other way. We pretend it’s not as bad as it is. We deny it could be happening in our church or our neighbourhood. We see the warning signs, but we ignore them.
A man who abuses a woman or a child is no man, and real men should take a stand against them. I’ve seen big strong men say “If you touch her again I will leave you unable to lift a hand against her.” I’m not sure how to square that with Scripture, but it does work. Abusers are bullies, and bullies scared. They make themselves feel tough by beating up those who are weaker than they are. When the weak are defended, bullies withdraw.
(BTW, this is a preview of a post I’m working on about abuse)
Drew-averagehusband – “They should always seek to perfect their craft and limit those instances.”
I absolutely agree, and I personally am aware of that issue when I write. The danger is becoming so worried about it that you water down your message, or fill it with so many disclaimers and qualifications that no one wants to wade through it.
And give God didn’t pull it off, I don’t expect I will ever get it right!
I don’t know the entire context of the blog that attacked his work, so I obviously don’t have the complete story.
I have read Love and Respect and found it to be insightful and balanced, and I would say that taking it and putting it i to practice was beneficial to my marriage.
With that said, I totally agree with Alex’s take on the follow up blog posts. Both came across as man bashing to me. The first three paragraphs in the second post you mentioned faulted men entirely. There was no balance to be found anywhere in the post. In the second paragraph he speaks of wives crying themselves to sleep because of neglect, and I know it happens, but I know for certain that is the less common scenario. It is much more likely to be the man who is neglected. While there is less likely to be tears, the doubt and the anguish and the questions of what is wrong with me are equally valid.
I strongly suspect that the blog posts he was responding to in his reply were written by a woman, just from the context, and in his response he was addressing specific allegations. In my opinion, he did not even attempt to find balance. Every instance I found where he spoke of a wifes responsibilities seemed to be an afterthought. He spoke in the first post you mentioned about finding a win-win, but thruout the post the only examples he listed were of men being unloving and brutish.
As a whole, I think I understand that his posts were a response to a specific attack or attacks, but in his effort to not retaliate, he gave up a lot of credibility by being so one sided, swinging all the way past center, to the opposite end of the scale.
> In the second paragraph he speaks of wives crying themselves to sleep because of neglect, and I know it happens, but I know for certain that is the less common scenario. It is much more likely to be the man who is neglected. While there is less likely to be tears, the doubt and the anguish and the questions of what is wrong with me are equally valid.
I don’t think we can categorically state that, but it would not surprise me if that were indeed the case. In those sort of cases, women are encouraged to share early and often, whereas men are told to suck it up and do better.
@Tom – Abuse of men by their wives, both emotionally and physically, is far more common than most folks know. Men are even less likely to report abuse than women.
It’s certainly part of the discussion that needs to be addressed.
@Anthony…I think much of what he says is his interpretation of biblical teachings but I think his take too far honestly. The pink and blue analogies were just too much and too stereotypical. Not everyone is a stay at home wife whose husband works long hours at the office where everyone treats him with oodles of respect. For myself I didn’t feel like he understood the experience of being a woman very well and this is why “women do x, men do y” types of books tend not to be my thing.
But there is so much that is troubling in the book I find it interesting that people recommend it all or don’t understand why someone would be closed to it. For instance in the book there are at least two different anecdotes where he talks about wives who were victims of domestic violence by their husband . He talks about these wives(who were physically abused) going on journeys where they learned they needed to be more respectful . I’m not sure what the point of those anecdotes was.
One of the sections the unnamed blogger talks about is where Eggerichs basically says “me and my sons are going to continue to put our wet towels on the bed and throw our candy wrappers on the floor, you(wife) are being unpleasant by badgering us about it” So bizarre and so different from my husband. Maybe other men behave like Eggerichs and I don’t know them? I found it really hard to take anything seriously he said after how he articulated how it was okay for he and his sons to be disrespectful to his wife.
I’m not sure that I see the need to contact Eggerichs before writing a series of blog posts. The book is recommended by many with no mention of the harmful parts…why can’t one have a public discussion about where the author goes wrong?
I have read the book and done the DVD class. I agree with Paul here – do I think it’s perfect – no. But do I find it toxic and worthy of scorn and outrage – no.
especially in the DVD series I participated in, he time and time again clarified the type of statements that are being criticized by saying “if your husband is well intentioned….” or “if she is well intentioned…” What that tells me is he is speaking directly to a particular (and majority) audience of Christian men and women – those who want to do right and well by their spouse, who want a healthy marriage, but either are unsure of how to get there, have developed wrong habits, have received poor teaching, etc. Men who do not fit this bill and selfishly want the sex they want and will do whatever it takes to get it are not in this audience. The fact that they will lie to themselves and others that they are “well intentioned” and just acting out how God made them is not anyone’s fault but their own. THEY are in the wrong.
@Drew-averagehusband – Ah yes, well-intentioned. He says that about both husbands and wives a number of times in the DVD. I’d say it’s his baseline starting place. I don’t recall if he says that in the book.
As I said before, his message has matured a great deal since the book was released. I’d really like to see a new version.
I wonder if my reading LOVE & RESPECT at the same time as we saw the DVD series rounded out his thoughts his more clearly. I think that gave me a fuller picture of what Eggerichs wanted to convey. As happens with many marriage resources I’ve come across, there are things with which I agree and things with which I disagree. Now I do find his wording of some things in the sexuality chapter of his book problematic, and I’d take those on, but I don’t recall this one-sidedness in the DVD series presentation. Maybe it’s time for a new edition of his book, so he can clarify his thoughts better and clear up the concerns.
@J. Parker – I liked the DVD more, and it did cover more and give a fuller picture.
Given he had a publisher, I suspect some of the sex chapters was filtered. That was a real issue for Christain authors until fairly recently.
And yes, he really needs a new book!
Phil,
It’s my opinion that the blogger in question does far more harm to Christian marriages and specifically Christian wives than what Emerson Eggerichs has ever done. Unfortunately, I think she has also influenced you far more than you realize, and not for the better.
As Christians, we should read with open heart of love. Marriage is a mutual relationship. Any behaviour from any partner affects the other or the marriage relationship positively or negatively. That’s why the Bible always uses ‘likewise’ when talking about marriage.
I’m late to this post, but hope you’ll see my comment. Before continuing to defend Eggerichs’ teaching on sex, I encourage you to read Chapters 20 and 31 of his book, The Love and Respect Experience.
Based on conversations with a theologian at Cornerstone University in Grand Rapids, MI, Eggerichs argues that I Corinthians 7:4-5 is not about sex. Rather, it’s about ‘felt needs’. According to Eggerichs, women have a ‘felt need’ for emotional intimacy. Men have a ‘felt need’ for physical intimacy. So, when the Apostle Paul writes that a husband’s body is not his own, he is referring to a wife’s need for conversation.
I have no problem with the statement that wives want sex to occur in the context of an emotionally intimate marriage. That is the point Eggerichs makes in the blog post you reference. The problem isn’t with what is said, it’s with the argument that a proper biblical exegesis implies it is the only thing that needs to be said. I.e., to support his one-sided teaching that the only thing that needs to be said about sex is that a wife is to submit unconditionally (absent infidelity or serious physical abuse), Eggerichs reduces a wife’s sexual needs to a need for conversation.
I hold the belief that there is a serious problem with Eggerichs’ teaching on sex. Gregoire gets this. Do I think she is too hard on Eggerichs, in general? Yes. Do I think she is too critical of his teaching on sex? Absolutely not!
@Marilyn Johnson – Don’t have that book.
But you say “Based on conversations with a theologian at Cornerstone University in Grand Rapids”. Does that mean he doesn’t say that in the book? And who is the theologian?
If he has stated that, I have a problem with it. But I would want to see it in his words and in context.
The Love She Most Desires. The Respect He Desparately Needs. Why does she only desire love, but he ‘desperately needs’ respect? A question raised before you even open the book! This has always stood out to me and has big red flags flying high. Desire and need, two very different meanings.